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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    @

    DCAFS - How old are your pre-cat O2s? Might want to consider changing them if they're anywhere near 50k miles. You can use two of the Bosch 17098, cheaper than the N54-specific 17102 for bank 2. You just need to make sure you label them properly and coil up the excess bank 2 wiring neatly using the clips on the HP rail. Saves about $60-90.
    Yes.....they are almost at 50K miles.

    I don't mind swapping injectors since it is something I was planning on doing soon anyways as preventive maintenance (lol a bit too late in hindsight).

    It's just so weird to have the Low Pressure fuel sensor die, then an injector go on bank 2 and now fuel trims are skewed......all at once.

    I suspect they are somehow related and makes sense that O2 sensors are part of the fueling equation.

    But I'm not getting any evidence of them being bad (or at least I don't know what to look for other than unstable A/F ratios).

    The LPF sensor threw a code and the injector pictured above shows definite signs of blowby. So at least I had something to go on with those.

    What makes you think it's the O2 sensors James?

  2. #77
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    It could be injectors but you've replaced them. It can be LTFTs that were learned over time due to a bad injector which are throwing off the STFTs and if you haven't reset learned adaptations then IMO that'd be the thing to do first before anything else.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Also, I beleive those injector adaptation values I was showing u are long term values. We probably should have reset them.
    So I reset the long term adaptations today and the trims are looking much better.

    Still about 10% apart while spraying meth but much improved from being 20-40% apart previously. More importantly AFR's are synched right up.

    @Tzu ......didn't you mention that you have a similar deviation?

    Click here to enlarge

  3. #78
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    I do have a similar deviation. It's essentially tune related since the procede feeds back "stock-like" signals to the DME, so the DME is unaware of the true conditions of the injectors to apply accurate long term adaptations. This will require all hardware to be in near-perfect working order since the degredation value is innaccurate. I'm thinking a proactive reset of adaptations every now and then is probably a good idea and AFAIK, the procede only resets short term adaptations.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    I do have a similar deviation. It's essentially tune related since the procede feeds back "stock-like" signals to the DME, so the DME is unaware of the true conditions of the injectors to apply accurate long term adaptations. This will require all hardware to be in near-perfect working order since the degredation value is innaccurate. I'm thinking a proactive reset of adaptations every now and then is probably a good idea and AFAIK, the procede only resets short term adaptations.
    Could you not just run the tune in pass-through mode for 2 days and then go back?

  5. #80
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    Not sure, isnt adaptations a long running average? eg. requires many samples to get a true indication. Wouldnt it therefore be counter-productive since youll be readapting the DME to the "true" values and then you have to adapt with the unit back in? Maybe this is a little out of my league. Either way, based on functional aspectes, I'd expect cobb to run more accurate fueling for more "unhealthy" injectors as it uses actual degredation values and a setpoint, where piggies require generally healthier injectors than cobb would need due to global offsetting for immediate demand scenarios.

  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    I do have a similar deviation. It's essentially tune related since the procede feeds back "stock-like" signals to the DME, so the DME is unaware of the true conditions of the injectors to apply accurate long term adaptations. This will require all hardware to be in near-perfect working order since the degredation value is innaccurate. I'm thinking a proactive reset of adaptations every now and then is probably a good idea and AFAIK, the procede only resets short term adaptations.
    I agree with you 100% on this point about procede not clearing long-term adaptations.

    I didn't realize that until I had them cleared on an autologic scanner the other day.

    Too bad we couldn't use you INPA to clear them earlier as it threw me off for a bit as to what was going on after injector coding.

    The piggy skewing adaptations seems to be the case here so far.

    Kind of lines up with what Dzenno was saying earlier about not seeing any of this behaviour with Cobb.

  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Not sure, isnt adaptations a long running average? eg. requires many samples to get a true indication. Wouldnt it therefore be counter-productive since youll be readapting the DME to the "true" values and then you have to adapt with the unit back in? Maybe this is a little out of my league. Either way, based on functional aspectes, I'd expect cobb to run more accurate fueling for more "unhealthy" injectors as it uses actual degredation values and a setpoint, where piggies require generally healthier injectors than cobb would need due to global offsetting for immediate demand scenarios.
    Does anyone know if fuel trim data is being manipulated by the piggies?

    I thought they only biased the O2 sensor data.

    Of course the counter point here is that trims are dictated by the AF ratio anyways so if one is inaccurate, the other will follow Click here to enlarge

  8. #83
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    Afaik there's not going to be a difference in adaption. The only dummie signal is boost. Throttle mapping and how you drive may have some effect. For example the DME is WOT from about 60% up, but procede is linear. I think LTFT are more for lower loads; I have never really seen unexpected changes in trims. I haven't really logged LTFT though.


    I am getting about 5 to 10% consistent variation with Cobb lately, and this is very likely hardware in my case.

    I just had hell of a time replying by iPhone. Keyboard kept disappearing, because of that twitter thing kept having to get back in screen I think. FYI to sticky

  9. #84
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    Well I am getting an 8% deviation in fuel trims on Map 1 with no meth spraying

    So meth on it's own is not creating all of the deviation by the looks of this log I took today......meth is only adding about 4% more deviation on top of this.


    Click here to enlarge

  10. #85
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    The meth deviation is a different animal entirely. I've decided to look for a new up-pipe, similar to what ETS offers with their IC, and possibly weld some meth bungs on that. Just an idea.

  11. #86
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    I would start with 3 bank 1 injectors and do another full reset on the adaptations...

  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Afaik there's not going to be a difference in adaption. The only dummie signal is boost. Throttle mapping and how you drive may have some effect. For example the DME is WOT from about 60% up, but procede is linear. I think LTFT are more for lower loads; I have never really seen unexpected changes in trims. I haven't really logged LTFT though.


    I am getting about 5 to 10% consistent variation with Cobb lately, and this is very likely hardware in my case.

    I just had hell of a time replying by iPhone. Keyboard kept disappearing, because of that twitter thing kept having to get back in screen I think. FYI to sticky
    Oh, that's interesting for Cobb.

    Wouldn't mind seeing a datalog of that if you could oblige?

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