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    Software tuning Tools for S54 ???

    Something lap top based I can use to do in depth diagnostics? Anyone know? I want to be able to log fuel maps, timing as well as monitor knock etc..

    Anything other than the GT1? Looking like they go for about $1K.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 07-04-2010 at 01:15 AM.

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    Logging? Ive used the Autoengiuity program and it works ok. The Gt1 BMW tool does some logging and can change some aspects the ecu, such as the idle.. But there is no software tuning software available.

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    Well I think EZ flash is now the tool that will handle that for the stock DME's. I don't really think there are any other options in this department.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Logging? Ive used the Autoengiuity program and it works ok. The Gt1 BMW tool does some logging and can change some aspects the ecu, such as the idle.. But there is no software tuning software available.
    Please forgive my ignorance, so there are no off the shelf solutions for tuning our cars? How do these "tuners" do fine changes to fuel maps, timing etc.. ? Is it all proprietary to the individual tuner?

    I've got experience with AEM.. it is starting to sound like I might need to go piggy back.. I'm still planning on a custom engine build.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Please forgive my ignorance, so there are no off the shelf solutions for tuning our cars? How do these "tuners" do fine changes to fuel maps, timing etc.. ? Is it all proprietary to the individual tuner?

    I've got experience with AEM.. it is starting to sound like I might need to go piggy back.. I'm still planning on a custom engine build.
    EZ FLASH
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    EZ FLASH
    edit: NM.. I see it is OE tuning..

    You got a web site.. I'm not finding anything for "EZ Flash" other than stuff for Gaming systems.

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    The EZ flash does not let you tune your car. It loads files that are already written. Unless i am mistaken...

    There is nothing available for us to just plug in and tune the stock ecu with.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    The EZ flash does not let you tune your car. It loads files that are already written. Unless i am mistaken...

    There is nothing available for us to just plug in and tune the stock ecu with.
    This is correct but it does the data logging as well as letting you flash your own files.

    The thing is, you would have to write your own files just like the tuners do from what I understand so this is the closest bridge to that available.
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    You will need some serious equipment and yearly licensing to personally tune a MSS54. It isn't for the light hearted.

    Logging for the most part is done with Bavarian Technic.
    Last edited by BrenM3; 07-04-2010 at 02:53 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    You will need some serious equipment and yearly licensing to personally tune a MSS54. It isn't for the light hearted.

    Logging for the most part is done with Bavarian Technic.
    How does BT logging compare to the logging with the EZ Flash?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    You will need some serious equipment and yearly licensing to personally tune a MSS54.
    That's why it appears as though if I want to custom tune my car.. I'm going to need to go piggy back. If HPF uses an AEM piggy back.. so can I and I have experience using it as well as have friends with experience.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    It isn't for the light hearted.
    Last year this time I had never changed the oil in a BMW, a year later I have built a fully modded M3 by myself. I don't believe in "Can't do", none of this is rocket science.

    I'm just researching options at this point, my custom build is a good 6-8 months away.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    That's why it appears as though if I want to custom tune my car.. I'm going to need to go piggy back. If HPF uses an AEM piggy back.. so can I and I have experience using it as well as have friends with experience.



    Last year this time I had never changed the oil in a BMW, a year later I have built a fully modded M3 by myself. I don't believe in "Can't do", none of this is rocket science.

    I'm just researching options at this point, my custom build is a good 6-8 months away.
    Get an AEM, sounds like it will work for your application. To get setup to flash accordingly would probably cost 3 AEM boxes over the course of a year. Plus 100s of hours in figuring out what tables are what.

    Also, look around and notice there are probably 5 real flash tuners for the MSS54, most are resellers too. It's not easy or everyone would do it - yes that includes other people who tune other platforms with success. Deciphering line after line of hex code of the stock DME and understanding it's relation to engine dynamics and individual components and testing it and actually making power, is beyond novice or an intermediate wrencher. It is probably less then 1% of actual enthusiasts who actually go that far.
    Last edited by BrenM3; 07-04-2010 at 04:31 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    That's why it appears as though if I want to custom tune my car.. I'm going to need to go piggy back. If HPF uses an AEM piggy back.. so can I and I have experience using it as well as have friends with experience.
    Yes, unless you get all the tools the tuners have and then you can flash your factory DME at will.

    Would be interesting to see someone actually try to go this far.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Get an AEM, sounds like it will work for your application. To get setup to flash accordingly would probably cost 3 AEM boxes over the course of a year. Plus 100s of hours in figuring out what tables are what.

    Also, look around and notice there are probably 5 real flash tuners for the MSS54, most are resellers too. It's not easy or everyone would do it - yes that includes other people who tune other platforms with success. Deciphering line after line of hex code of the stock DME and understanding it's relation to engine dynamics and individual components and testing it and actually making power, is beyond novice or an intermediate wrencher. It is probably less then 1% of actual enthusiasts who actually go that far.
    This is pretty well said, if you truly want to do that then go AEM.

    However, why not simply get custom files specifically for his application and he can get switch them depending on fuel, goal, etc.?

    This isn't like doing mechanical work yourself, quite a bit different. I think flashing my own custom files is as far as it realistically makes sense to go.
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    I think what the OP is requesting is a tool that can emulate the stock software and make changes on the fly. Unfortunately with the increase in size of today Eproms no company has brought something that can handle this. The last time I used similar was Winols by EVC on a S50. At the moment OEM tuners make changes on the files and flash them. Its a lengthy and hard process compared to the older stuff.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I think what the OP is requesting is a tool that can emulate the stock software and make changes on the fly.
    Exactly, I wasn't sure if it was possible with the M3 or not. I've done more research and it does appear that for my current plans I will need to go with an AEM piggy back. I'm shooting for 750+ WHP on a built S/C'd motor on nitrous. My belief is the HPF turbo setup, though very powerful no doubt it, has to abrupt of a power curve. That is why Stage 2+ cars are not easily breaking 10's which they certainly should be given the total power to weight ratio. Problem is IMHO, the abrupt power curve is simply to much for the M3 suspension to handle.

    My belief is a more linear power curve that a S/C can provide and assisting that power with progressive nitrous on the top at the right time will easily break 10's without the abrupt shock to the drive line that the HPF cars are putting down. To do that however, I need an EMS that will cooperate.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Exactly, I wasn't sure if it was possible with the M3 or not. I've done more research and it does appear that for my current plans I will need to go with an AEM piggy back. I'm shooting for 750+ WHP on a built S/C'd motor on nitrous. My belief is the HPF turbo setup, though very powerful no doubt it, has to abrupt of a power curve. That is why Stage 2+ cars are not easily breaking 10's which they certainly should be given the total power to weight ratio. Problem is IMHO, the abrupt power curve is simply to much for the M3 suspension to handle.

    My belief is a more linear power curve that a S/C can provide and assisting that power with progressive nitrous on the top at the right time will easily break 10's without the abrupt shock to the drive line that the HPF cars are putting down. To do that however, I need an EMS that will cooperate.
    You are essentially advocating sacrificing a fatter curve for something that is easier to launch. The main reason the HPF cars haven't broken into the 10's is the subframe needs to be reinforced as well as many SMG's trying and they are not a good platform to launch. It will take a good driver with a manual who is willing to abuse his clutch as well as someone who gives bias-ply drag tires a shot. Many turbo cars have power come on hard and they can launch, it is just a question of skill and setup.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    it is just a question of skill and setup.
    you said it.. not me Click here to enlarge but a more linear power curve with a power adder such as nitrous coming in AFTER traction is a proven method. Nitrous on a turbo is way scary.. nitrous on a supercharger is not nearly as scary.

    I've built and raced Dodge's, Plymouth's, VW's, Honda's and now BMW's.. the theory is the same. The M3 suspension would need to be heavily modified, possibly even "back halving" the car using a straight axle setup to utilize the turbo HP curve. To me, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.. it is easier to design/build a powerplant that will work better with the M3 suspension as engineered.. albeit using hardened components etc..

    Who knows.. maybe I'll get crazy enough to be the first to back half an M3.. I've done it too several cars.. Maybe I can engineer it into a mass produced mod!!! Hmmmm...

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    Wait, you can't just use a screw driver and check everything by pulling the plugs? lol

    You have two options:

    Either a standalone/piggy, in which case I would pay the premium price and purchase one from HPF if they would let you since it's plug and play and will save you time and some money in figuring things out.

    or

    Send your car or fly in a tuner such as OE Tuning or AA

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Wait, you can't just use a screw driver and check everything by pulling the plugs? lol
    man, i thought i heard Nik in here but it was just you Mike....lol

    also i dont think HPF will sell the customized AEM box, they sell the generic off the shelf one. i believe i remember someone asked Chris on fanatics and that was his answer, but im not 100% sure of that.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    man, i thought i heard Nik in here but it was just you Mike....lol

    also i dont think HPF will sell the customized AEM box, they sell the generic off the shelf one. i believe i remember someone asked Chris on fanatics and that was his answer, but im not 100% sure of that.
    I'm wondering what box Gintani got then?

    HPF wants to protect their investment so it makes sense but that also does not allow anyone to do their own kit. So whatever one you get does not have the maps they use.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Wait, you can't just use a screw driver and check everything by pulling the plugs? lol

    You have two options:

    Either a standalone/piggy, in which case I would pay the premium price and purchase one from HPF if they would let you since it's plug and play and will save you time and some money in figuring things out.

    or

    Send your car or fly in a tuner such as OE Tuning or AA
    This is what I was trying to say, you don't need to fly in a tuner any longer with the EZ flash, just mail your file and flash it yourself. Closest bridge...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
    Wait, you can't just use a screw driver and check everything by pulling the plugs? lol
    Ya know, instead of hanging out on forums, I'm old enough to remember hanging out at Super Shops on weekends.

    Ha! Funny.. but no I have experience tuning modern EMS's as well. I have the most experience with AEM and a little with MoTeC. What I do not have experience with is VANOS. So I started asking questions because dealing with VANOS I was hoping I could use the DME basics and just modify parameters.

    I'm not asking for advice on a tuner, I'm asking for advice on the physical requirements to have the ability to tune. But like it has already been discussed, AEM is pretty much my only real viable option at this point.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 07-06-2010 at 11:56 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    man, i thought i heard Nik in here but it was just you Mike....lol

    also i dont think HPF will sell the customized AEM box, they sell the generic off the shelf one. i believe i remember someone asked Chris on fanatics and that was his answer, but im not 100% sure of that.
    I've already have been in contact with HPF.. I've been exploring my options for a bit. I should be able to get my fuel system from HPF, however they wouldn't sell me a blank EMS. All I really wanted was the wiring harness, I could buy the AEM box myself. Problem is they stated the EMS they use is a custom made AEM application and uses a different connector. They didn't totally leave me disappointed though, it does appear they might be willing to consult me to some degree.

    Wiring an EMS in can be a real PITA lol.. and I have to deal with VANOS.. I guess I could always go with VAC's VANOS delete if I'm going standalone. That would cut the cost of my engine build but I would loose some of the street ability these cars have lol!!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I've already have been in contact with HPF.. I've been exploring my options for a bit. I should be able to get my fuel system from HPF, however they wouldn't sell me a blank EMS. All I really wanted was the wiring harness, I could buy the AEM box myself. Problem is they stated the EMS they use is a custom made AEM application and uses a different connector. They didn't totally leave me disappointed though, it does appear they might be willing to consult me to some degree.

    Wiring an EMS in can be a real PITA lol.. and I have to deal with VANOS.. I guess I could always go with VAC's VANOS delete if I'm going standalone. That would cut the cost of my engine build but I would loose some of the street ability these cars have lol!!!
    So you are planning on getting the AEM box and having HPF consult? You seem pretty serious about doing this all yourself, AEM is the only way it will happen.
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