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  1. #51
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    Average person goes the range with there rifles!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Average person goes the range with there rifles!!
    Yes. Firing off shots. Now if more people carried guns that dirt bag would have gotten blasted after the first shot. Get ready for more retarded laws that make the government more powerful.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes. Firing off shots. Now if more people carried guns that dirt bag would have gotten blasted after the first shot. Get ready for more retarded laws that make the government more powerful.
    What you don't seem to understand is that the vast majority of the public doesn't want to carry guns. It's not because the laws are too tough to obtain them because they certainly are not. Any idiot can and has gotten themselves a gun. I have friends who think that it's a great idea to stuff an M80 down your pants while you're naping and blowing your balls off. They think that using a tazer on each other is funny. They own an assortment of various arms, from shotguns, to rifles, to revolvers.


    2nd part of your post while reading I didn't realize that the guns in civilian's hands are to make sure that the government doesn't get too powerful. The reason why guns were put into the Amendments is because the U.S.A. relied heavily on organized militias consisting of normal civilians during the Revolutionary War. It was a massive help since the U.S.A. didn't have an army of their own that could step up against the English forces. So yeah it made sense back then.

    Fast forward till today, you amass enough firearms and food in your house and the FBI along with the ATF and whatever acronym police force will show up at your house and give you a free concert of bad music 24/7. And then they will take all that $#@! away from you, dead or alive. This government has been too powerful for a very very long time. There is no way in hell anybody in the USA is going to overthrow anything. Let's get serious now.
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  4. #54
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    This isn't about gun control. This crazy $#@! would have just made a home-made bomb to blow people up if he couldn't get his hands on the firearms.

    One can argue that the legalization of abortion has had a bigger impact on crime than anything else : O

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legaliz...d_crime_effect

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes. Firing off shots. Now if more people carried guns that dirt bag would have gotten blasted after the first shot.
    I wouldn't want to rely on self-proclaimed Sheriffs to protect me. Crime rates in the US are fearsome despite everyone having guns "to defend their property"... WTF. When will this madness stop? Even "Mr Change" didn't achieve anything in this regards. Everybody bows in front of the almighty guns and military industry. It's all about the business.
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't want to rely on self-proclaimed Sheriffs to protect me. Crime rates in the US are fearsome despite everyone having guns "to defend their property"... WTF. When will this madness stop? Even "Mr Change" didn't achieve anything in this regards. Everybody bows in front of the almighty guns and military industry. It's all about the business.
    really? thats a broad generalization. yes a lot of us have guns, but we cant carry them on us. read the facts i posted above, more than half a million times a year criminals are fended off with weapons in self defense..and just as many moved onto targets they KNEW were not armed..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes. Firing off shots. Now if more people carried guns that dirt bag would have gotten blasted after the first shot. Get ready for more retarded laws that make the government more powerful.
    The problem with this statement is that it doesn't take into account friendly fire and the armor.

    Most gun owners probably think they are awesome shots, etc...just like most people that own fast cars actually think they can drive.

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    I wouldn't want to rely on self-proclaimed Sheriffs to protect me. Crime rates in the US are fearsome despite everyone having guns "to defend their property"... WTF. When will this madness stop? Even "Mr Change" didn't achieve anything in this regards. Everybody bows in front of the almighty guns and military industry. It's all about the business.
    It is about the constitution for me. The problem is the slippery slope of gun control.

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    as everyone can see this gun control topic is a heated debate, going on longer than we've been alive. i mean look at the above posts. 2/4 pos reps for a pro-guns comment, 2/4 pos reps for a con-guns comment. from this small sample we can see it's even. there are many who believe we should be like the UK and ban guns entirely (to civilians). then there's the other side of the coin where people amass ridiculous stocks of weapons, enough to house an army or two. the topic honestly will never be put to rest until something even more dramatic occurs (although this tragedy is quite heavy). i for one am pro-guns. every country has idiots who will push the wrong boundaries.
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  10. #60
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    It is sick that someone can buy an assault rifle legally. Good luck with anyone with a hand gun fighting against armored attacker with tear gas, gas mask, assault rifle and why not a couple of grenades as well... if these people come with heavy artillery, who is going to carry anything even close to that level just for in case they'd happen to run into a lunatic, of which probability is zero - give or take.

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    Its because anti-gun people are not realistic

    WHy have MORE LAWS, if its obvious the CURRENT laws are not enforced properly?

    Believe me, I know all to well the dangers of weapons, and I know why people are afraid. But knee-jerk reaction for banning what caused and gave us our freedom, is not the answer.

    If you tell me you want more control, I will make your whole argument invalid as shown through history

    IF you tell me you would like to see the current restrictions enforced, Im all for it, call the ATF, and tell them to hire me..

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    It is sick that someone can buy an assault rifle legally. Good luck with anyone with a hand gun fighting against armored attacker with tear gas, gas mask, assault rifle and why not a couple of grenades as well... if these people come with heavy artillery, who is going to carry anything even close to that level just for in case they'd happen to run into a lunatic, of which probability is zero - give or take.

    accuracy, not quantity. what is an "assault" rifle BTW?

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    really? thats a broad generalization. yes a lot of us have guns, but we cant carry them on us. read the facts i posted above, more than half a million times a year criminals are fended off with weapons in self defense..and just as many moved onto targets they KNEW were not armed..
    Facts you posted are completely hiding the truth, you're posting mostly wartime statistics and going by the good ol hindsight politics of "woulda, coulda, shoulda."

    I like how you completely skewed the information of Switzerland as well. Let's nitpick that one since you capitalized all the letters and told people to read it a few times. Please read this a few times as well.

    Switzerland:
    Population: 8 million people

    Military: Militia System......now wait a minute that sounds oddly familiar doesn't it? Let's dig a bit deeper here shall we?
    Active personnel: 109,000 that makes for a very small army.

    Now here is the extremely important fact you omitted: Swiss Constitution states that "every Swiss male is obliged to do military service"; every Swiss male has to serve at least 260 days in the armed forces; conscripts receive 18 weeks of mandatory training, followed by seven 3-week intermittent recalls for training during the next 10 years

    Why don't you read that part a few times and let it sink in because that's important. Why is it important? Because those are the people that have the freaking guns in their houses......If every gun owner in the USA had to go through all that $#@! then I wouldn't have a problem with them owning guns. These are trained people, not some $#@!ing off the street jerkoff who decided today is a good day to get a gun like we have here.

    So here are some other nice numbers I have prepared for you, that I will stack up against Switzerland.

    We already know the population is around 8 million and they are armed to the teeth. Poland on the other hand has one of the stringiest gun controls in Europe and because of that has the fewest owned guns by civilians in Europe. Here is what you have to do to own a gun in Poland:



    The psychological evaluation must be repeated every 5 years. Some other weapons, such as crossbows, require the same license as is required for firearms.

    So let's now put these countries side by side:

    Btw: Poland has a population of 38,200,000 which is 4.7 times more than Switzerland
    Here is a little table of gun related homicides in a 10 year collection of data which can be found here: www.gunpolicy.org



    Year
    Switzerland
    Poland
    2009
    55
    15
    2008
    18
    19
    2007
    35
    34
    2006
    34
    25
    2005
    48
    24
    2004
    57
    26
    2003
    47
    47
    2002
    68
    74
    2001
    47
    58
    2000
    40
    79
    1999
    72
    79

    So we have a country who has a vastly smaller population (should be easier to police), and the gun owners are even trained military personnel, but that country doesn't seem to be much safer than Poland. You could even argue that Poland is much safer than Switzerland in the last 5 years of that table in terms of gun violence.



    Click here to enlarge

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    accuracy, not quantity. what is an "assault" rifle BTW?
    I was reading somewhere the guy had that. It is the typical infantry weapon with magazines and capable of both single and fully automated fire. Way more accurate than an average hand gun.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I was reading somewhere the guy had that. It is the typical infantry weapon with magazines and capable of both single and fully automated fire. Way more accurate than an average hand gun.
    rhetorical question. 1 shot, one kill btw, a well placed.40 would have stopped it from escalating to what it did

  16. #66
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    its not letting me qoute

    "Why don't you read that part a few times and let it sink in because that's important. Why is it important? Because those are the people that have the freaking guns in their houses......If every gun owner in the USA had to go through all that $#@! then I wouldn't have a problem with them owning guns. These are trained people, not some $#@!ing off the street jerkoff who decided today is a good day to get a gun like we have here."


    so you agree that a trained person with a gun is no threat. good, now your using your brain.

    do you know what real military training is? infantry and support jobs are different. Someone like me spends thousands of hours yearly on weapons. guess how many hours supprt personell get? 40 hours in itial training, and 4 hours yearly after that.

    so, does that sound far off from what we have to do here in the US? i think not. so without knowing it, you just again proved my point for me, and even agree with me Click here to enlarge

    THANKS


    POLAND
    doesnt sound like a free state now does it? RIGHTS not PRIVELAGES. when you show me that Poland could defend themselves in the WW's, i may agree with you.

    WHen you show me that POLAND held a REVOLUTION to gain FREEDOM from an oppressive government, I may agree with you..
    But, if memory serves me.. didnt someone have to bail them out...?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge

    POLAND
    doesnt sound like a free state now does it? RIGHTS not PRIVELAGES. when you show me that Poland could defend themselves in the WW's, i may agree with you.

    WHen you show me that POLAND held a REVOLUTION to gain FREEDOM from an oppressive government, I may agree with you..
    But, if memory serves me.. didnt someone have to bail them out...?
    What a crap of BS. As you're referring to WWII, you should read a bit more about the historical data. Germany developed the military infrastructure for the war years ahead and took Poland (and the rest of Europe) pretty much unprepared. How could polish cavallary, based on WWI war tactics, stand against german tanks and their Blitzkrieg? Even if EVERY civilian had a gun and training, the outcome would still have been the same. But as an ex-marine you probably know that... Most wars are won by strategy and, even more, technology!

    How does a revolution, centuries ago, have to entitle a civilian the right to own a gun??
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  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    What a crap of BS. As you're referring to WWII, you should read a bit more about the historical data. Germany developed the military infrastructure for the war years ahead and took Poland (and the rest of Europe) pretty much unprepared. How could polish cavallary, based on WWI war tactics, stand against german tanks and their Blitzkrieg? Even if EVERY civilian had a gun and training, the outcome would still have been the same. But as an ex-marine you probably know that... Most wars are won by strategy and, even more, technology!

    How does a revolution, centuries ago, have to entitle a civilian the right to own a gun??
    your serious? Think about what you just said.

    you cant win a war w/o boots on ground.

    Look at the insurgency in iraq and afghan against the super power of America and all its technology and tanks air air support..

    oh you dont know whats ACTUALLY going on? you could read a few books written by someone that read a few books about it, or ask someone thats lived it..

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    I think this debate is more basic than we all are making it.
    At the core answer this question:
    Who is responsible to keep me and my family safe?
    Me or
    The police/military

    Answer that question after some real honest thinking.

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    As far as skill and accuracy under fire we all fall to our lowest level of training. No one rises to the occasion. That goes for police military and private gun owner. If you want to rely on someone else's skill go ahead.....

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    If you tell me you want more control, I will make your whole argument invalid as shown through history

    IF you tell me you would like to see the current restrictions enforced, Im all for it, call the ATF, and tell them to hire me..
    maybe you guys missed this?

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    Criminals will always have the ability to obtain and possess guns, they are not worried about breaking laws. Gun control laws only take gun out of the hands of law abiding citizens that follow the laws.

    As usual, we have lots of people that know nothing about guns, assigning descriptions like "assault rifle" just because someone used it to commit an assault. Assault rifles are no more accurate (actually less accurate) than everyday rifles. I really wish that the journalists and politicians that want to go on television and radio to discuss guns, took 5 minutes to do some basic research into the appropriate terms to describe them accurately. Then again they have no interest in being accurate, only being incendiary.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its not letting me qoute

    "Why don't you read that part a few times and let it sink in because that's important. Why is it important? Because those are the people that have the freaking guns in their houses......If every gun owner in the USA had to go through all that $#@! then I wouldn't have a problem with them owning guns. These are trained people, not some $#@!ing off the street jerkoff who decided today is a good day to get a gun like we have here."


    so you agree that a trained person with a gun is no threat. good, now your using your brain.

    do you know what real military training is? infantry and support jobs are different. Someone like me spends thousands of hours yearly on weapons. guess how many hours supprt personell get? 40 hours in itial training, and 4 hours yearly after that.

    so, does that sound far off from what we have to do here in the US? i think not. so without knowing it, you just again proved my point for me, and even agree with me Click here to enlarge

    THANKS


    POLAND
    doesnt sound like a free state now does it? RIGHTS not PRIVELAGES. when you show me that Poland could defend themselves in the WW's, i may agree with you.

    When you show me that POLAND held a REVOLUTION to gain FREEDOM from an oppressive government, I may agree with you:
    But, if memory serves me.. didnt someone have to bail them out...?
    1980's Solidarity Movement, go ahead and read about that.

    Please do share your memory on that particular part of history. I am dying to know how vast your knowledge on this subject is.
    Click here to enlarge

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    There is no argument to even be made here.

    1. If we lived in a country where guns were banned, a deranged psychopath could inflict the same amount of damage on a populace even without firearms. All he needs is basic household chemicals to make pipe bombs. So that argument that taking away guns will make countries safer is GONE. Look at the UK, Spain, Greece or any country in europe with gun control. OK, instead of guns lets use molotov cocktails. durrrr

    2. Body armor doesnt mean $#@!. Have you ever gotten shot with body armor on? It isnt designed to make bullets bounce off you. It is designed to just keep you alive, just about and thats it. Because it's heavy. The dude was 24 year old, probably a pussy and probably would run if someone actually began shooting back at him. Getting shot with a vest on feels like getting hit in the ribs with a baseball bat. Now do that 6 times with an average sized carry gun and try to stand up and keep shooting back.

    3. It is every free human beings RIGHT, to be able to defend themselves. It is not a privelage, cats have claws, wolves have teeth, people have guns. Guns are niether good nor evil, pencils are good nor evil, nor is bleach, or fertilizer or anything that can be used as a tool of death. This leads me to point 4.

    4. Lets think of a society where every single citizen is OBLIGED by law to pass a gun training test, meaning, everyone is obligated by law to carry a firearm with you at all times and have to pass a test and if you fail you get fined.

    Imagine trying to step into a movie theater and shoot somebody. KTHXBAI
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    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Velocity26 Click here to enlarge
    Criminals will always have the ability to obtain and possess guns, they are not worried about breaking laws. Gun control laws only take gun out of the hands of law abiding citizens that follow the laws.
    How does "give guns to every creepy individium" solve that? Gun control takes guns out of the hands of many who shouldn't own them for a reason.
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