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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I made it very clear the DME dectated nothing. You do know what the word dectate means do you ?


    I don't...Click here to enlarge I think what your trying to say is "dictate"

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    This is amusing and TPS is throttle position sensor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mike335i Click here to enlarge
    This is amusing and TPS is throttle position sensor.
    Thanks

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    I don't...Click here to enlarge I think what your trying to say is "dictate"
    aha ! So that was the problem Click here to enlarge ...thanks, yes I meant "dictate"

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    I am curious if anyone has tried to beat the computer. Meaning - leave the thing in auto (full auto) - time it - and then try your best at shifting where you think the car should shift. I wonder if the time is better when it's in full auto mode. When I use launch control on my car - if shifts for me, even though it's in "manual" mode. I am guessing the shift points are perfect in this mode, but never read any info about this.

    I am guessing this would be better than me doing it myself, because there is a bit of lag between the pull of the lever and the actual shift - and sometimes I hit the limiter in 1st before it shifts. Has anyone logged both in a quarter mile?

    On another note, the DCT acts similarly to the SMG in the E46 M3. If you are in S6, and mash the throttle down very quickly - the revs quickly rise, and it will basically do a "burn out" if you leave the throttle in place. However, if you move the throttle back some, you can launch the car at an RPM of your choosing (relatively speaking, as you have to be quick as hell) - I am sure the automated launch is better, but with turbo cars, there might be some time to be gained here. Just a thought - and wonder if anyone does this.

    Cheers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I am curious if anyone has tried to beat the computer. Meaning - leave the thing in auto (full auto) - time it - and then try your best at shifting where you think the car should shift. I wonder if the time is better when it's in full auto mode. When I use launch control on my car - if shifts for me, even though it's in "manual" mode. I am guessing the shift points are perfect in this mode, but never read any info about this.
    Yes I have using both D, S, and M automated modes with and without Sport enabled. It is horrible, the DME takes the RPMs to redline when it "dictates" Click here to enlarge the shifting. Also the standard LC you are using you have no control over traction resulting in a poor 60' in which the DME controls traction by cutting acceleration and braking, resulting in poor ET and speed traps

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I am guessing this would be better than me doing it myself, because there is a bit of lag between the pull of the lever and the actual shift - and sometimes I hit the limiter in 1st before it shifts. Has anyone logged both in a quarter mile?
    I havent logged it but I will make sure at another private event I do this. A friend of mind, all stock, used automated S Mode with Sport enable and his ET was 14 sec with 103 speed traps.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    .... I am sure the automated launch is better, but with turbo cars, there might be some time to be gained here. Just a thought - and wonder if anyone does this.

    Cheers.
    Automated launches will not get you below a 2.1 60' tuned or stock in a 335iS for most. My best 60' was 1.84 on good track conditions not using automated LC

    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Automated launches will not get you below a 2.1 60' tuned or stock in a 335iS for most. My best 60' was 1.84 on good track conditions not using automated LC
    Why not?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why not?
    Remember I said DCT "335iS"

    There is multiple reasons:

    "Auto Standard LC" - 1M Mode / Sport Enabled / DCS Sport Traction

    1) Wheels Spin
    2) Too much traction, DME cuts power to save tranny
    3) Cannot feather acceleration to better traction
    4) DME traction control intervention with braking and acceleration cut of power

    Auto LC using S Mode Sport Enabled (DCS Completely OFF)

    1) Delay
    2) Car rolls for about a foot before the RPMs bump to 2500 then
    3) Wheel spin - notorious on tuned 335iS

    The last is more usefull as you can feather the acceleration to control traction.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Auto LC using S Mode Sport Enabled (DCS Completely OFF)

    1) Delay
    2) Car rolls for about a foot before the RPMs bump to 2500 then
    3) Wheel spin - notorious on tuned 335iS

    The last is more usefull as you can feather the acceleration to control traction.
    I agree this is difficult but it is the best way to launch once you get it down.

    Use a line lock to keep you in place so you do not roll forward.

    Secondly, you need good rubber heated up. It will launch at a high RPM and just MOVE.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I am curious if anyone has tried to beat the computer. Meaning - leave the thing in auto (full auto) - time it - and then try your best at shifting where you think the car should shift. I wonder if the time is better when it's in full auto mode. When I use launch control on my car - if shifts for me, even though it's in "manual" mode. I am guessing the shift points are perfect in this mode, but never read any info about this.

    I am guessing this would be better than me doing it myself, because there is a bit of lag between the pull of the lever and the actual shift - and sometimes I hit the limiter in 1st before it shifts. Has anyone logged both in a quarter mile?

    On another note, the DCT acts similarly to the SMG in the E46 M3. If you are in S6, and mash the throttle down very quickly - the revs quickly rise, and it will basically do a "burn out" if you leave the throttle in place. However, if you move the throttle back some, you can launch the car at an RPM of your choosing (relatively speaking, as you have to be quick as hell) - I am sure the automated launch is better, but with turbo cars, there might be some time to be gained here. Just a thought - and wonder if anyone does this.

    Cheers.
    my fastest 60-130s are in manual shifting at 8100

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Interesting.....I would only expect someone whom lacks knowledge of DCT to ask such a hidious question. What part of "....Nothing was DME dectated...." in the application of DCT does that mean ?
    Im sorry but this is just moronic, you dont have to drive a DCT to understand how it works. EVERYTHING about a DCT trans IS DME dictated/controlled/processed - whatever label you want to place on it. It allows you more authority, but in the end it is still processing your requests via its own logic.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Its not hard work at all when you have foreknowledge of when to shift to achieve the best times..
    Yeah, i mean its not like you are having to time your clutch/gas pedal/shifter movements or anything.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I made it very clear the DME dectated nothing. You do know what the word dectate means do you ?.
    Nope, but i do know what DICTATED means.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Seems you have migrated our previous disagreement on this topic over to this thread. When you have learnt how to successfully and affectively launch a DCT 335iS then we can talk of the comaprison to that on MT launch.
    I gave up arguing with you. Its obvious that you are a tool that feels like grandstanding about how hard it is to drive/launch a DCT car. If my car was DCT, my posts would be titled "Ha $#@!es, look how nice my launches are thanks to my uber impressive trans." I think its lunacy that you act like a DCT is a hinderance at the track, its the opposite $#@!tard.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    The reason why we are so successful in launching this car is because of previous MT foreknowledge in launching and applying it to DCT as a hybrid technique.
    Click here to enlarge Good for you man. On E90 you stated its harder to launch a DCT car than a manual... I still think your $#@!ing insane.

    In closing, stop using cutting edge technology and letting us all know how terrible it makes your life. You paid extra for that trans - be sure to let everyone know what they are missing out on.

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    To be fair, the launch is the only tricky part of dct. you cant slip the clutch, and if you try boosting, it disengages and you go nowhere, basically, it has a $#@!ty response time. The only thing you can do w/o LC is leav on the 2nd light with mdm off and feather it, it will still have a delay, but not as bad. i havent cut 1.9's, but 2.0's, but im on slippery street tires.

    once your moving, its a click, keep wheel straight-watch the tach-click-keep wheel straight-watch the tach-click-keep wheel straight-watch the tach-click-keep wheel straight-watch the tach-click-

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Im sorry but this is just moronic, you dont have to drive a DCT to understand how it works. EVERYTHING about a DCT trans IS DME dictated/controlled/processed - whatever label you want to place on it. It allows you more authority, but in the end it is still processing your requests via its own logic.

    So based on your logic then your dont have to drive a MT to understand how it works either.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, i mean its not like you are having to time your clutch/gas pedal/shifter movements or anything.
    Your right, I just have to worry about predicting when the DME will or will not do something. I do have to time my rpm rev on the count down and making sure they are in the correct rang to launch accurately.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I gave up arguing with you.......
    But the beat still goes on and on with you doesnt it....


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Good for you man. On E90 you stated its harder to launch a DCT car than a manual... I still think your $#@!ing insane.
    Are you fustrated that DCT trumphs MT ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    In closing, stop using cutting edge technology and letting us all know how terrible it makes your life. You paid extra for that trans - be sure to let everyone know what they are missing out on.
    Making my life terrible ? You are mistaken, its the opposite. I have a 12 second flat almost 11 second car that runs flawlessly. I have no need to worry about using fuel mixtures or DRs to achieving those numbers. As is on the track its the same on the street.

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    @BuraQ I've found your info on 335is DCT launching, shift points, etc. very useful.... thanks. I just picked up a '12 335is w/DCT about 6 weeks ago. Looking forward to you getting in the 11's.

    This is the first non-manual car I've ever owned... been driving manual for almost 25 years. I've also spent a lot of time driving AT as my wife's cars have always been AT.

    I agree that it is not straightforward *properly* launching this thing... in the same way an MT is not just "drop the clutch" but more of a finesse to "hook" the first gear torque bite to get the extra push forward, the DCT is not just "mash the pedal in 1st or 2nd". Anything you do will make the car go, but when it comes to maximizing the launch torque without breaking traction, MT and DCT (and AT for that matter) all have their own complexities.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Are you fustrated that DCT trumphs MT ?
    I think he's just frustrated that you are making it seem like the DCT is harder to drive than a MT, which I agree makes no sense.

    Yes, the DCT has it's complexities, but let's be honest, you're only clicking buttons and playing with 1 pedal.

    Though, I agree that the DCT is faster at shifting gears than a MT and I wish I had one!
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by x3791m Click here to enlarge
    @BuraQ I've found your info on 335is DCT launching, shift points, etc. very useful.... thanks. I just picked up a '12 335is w/DCT about 6 weeks ago. Looking forward to you getting in the 11's....
    A thorough brake down via video and documentary will be coming shortly. More than likely not after I break 11s .Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I think he's just frustrated that you are making it seem like the DCT is harder to drive than a MT, which I agree makes no sense.
    Nafoo, listen bro, not one time did I ever infer direct or indirectly that the DCT was more difficult to "drive" than an MT. My preface has always and only argued that the DCT is more difficult to properly "launch" than a MT. It was the phantom thoughts of some people that streatched it further.

    A perfect example is this thread, the OP is about how fast does a DCT shift, not how DCT is better than MT. The thread got hijacked away from the OP while being spawned from another debated post.

    Further more, I originally posted this thread in the video section and it got moved here. That should be clear enough what my intentions were, exactly what was stated for those interested in DCT and how fast it shifts. I made the additional comments because the passenger seat was in the way of people seeing what I am doing

    It was not to make a showdown with N54 MT supporters.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    It was not to make a showdown with N54 MT supporters.
    It always happens. They are butthurt.

    For the record, the DCT is difficult to launch. As is the manual.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    BuraQ, thanks for posting your experience. Don't let these guys get you down, I own a manual and will completely admit that the DCT is much harder to get a good launch with. My buddy has a z43.5i with the DCT and we had the hardest time figuring out a decent launch the first day at the track. I did NOT envy him and was very happy I had a manual to launch with. It definitely takes a lot more concentration and perfect timing at the light to get a good launch. I'd much rather have a manual to rev and dump the clutch, so much easier to get a good 60'
    Click here to enlarge
    '07 E90 MT Sports Package l FBO l RB Turbos l JB4 G5 with MHD E85 BEF l N20 MAP Sensor l MMP Inlets l Custom Exhaust l BMS Short Shifter l NLS & 2-Step l MFactory 3.46 LSD l 335is Clutch with MFactory SMFW l Walbro 450

    Best 1/4 ET: 11.4
    Best 1.4 Trap: 127.7

    '08 E60 MT Fully Loaded l JB4 G5 with BB Pump BEF l BMS DCI l 335is Clutch

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge

    For the record, the DCT is difficult to launch. As is the manual.
    If it's like the SMG, then it sucks balls big times. I launch with MT worlds better than SMG. Such a $#@!ty device.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by prelude2perfect Click here to enlarge
    BuraQ, thanks for posting your experience. Don't let these guys get you down, I own a manual and will completely admit that the DCT is much harder to get a good launch with. My buddy has a z43.5i with the DCT and we had the hardest time figuring out a decent launch the first day at the track. I did NOT envy him and was very happy I had a manual to launch with. It definitely takes a lot more concentration and perfect timing at the light to get a good launch. I'd much rather have a manual to rev and dump the clutch, so much easier to get a good 60'
    Couldnt disagree with you more. With a DCT, you can focus on only feathering the throttle. Who the hell cuts a sub 2.0 60 ft with a FBO N54 MT by just dumping the clutch on street tires? It takes surgical precision to cut a decent 60 ft time on street tires, with a MT when your making decent power. I've been working on a proper launch technique for my car ever since i owned it, i either smoke the clutch, smoke the tires or bog. Rarely have i gotten any kind of decent launch and certainly not with record setting 60 ft times.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Couldnt disagree with you more. With a DCT, you can focus on only feathering the throttle. Who the hell cuts a sub 2.0 60 ft with a FBO N54 MT by just dumping the clutch on street tires? It takes surgical precision to cut a decent 60 ft time on street tires, with a MT when your making decent power. I've been working on a proper launch technique for my car ever since i owned it, i either smoke the clutch, smoke the tires or bog. Rarely have i gotten any kind of decent launch and certainly not with record setting 60 ft times.
    Its actually significantly easier to cut a good 60ft time with a 6speed than with a DCT from my experience. Unless you have slicks (properly heated) and use LC (given it works successfully), DCT is an absolute $#@! to get off the line. There is a reason there is only 1 supercharged S65 (VAC E92 M3) that has ran an exceptional ET in the 1/4 mile while many others with similar and even more power cannot break into the 10's. The DCT is not good for the 1/4 mile, but it is great on roll on runs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Its actually significantly easier to cut a good 60ft time with a 6speed than with a DCT from my experience. Unless you have slicks (properly heated) and use LC (given it works successfully), DCT is an absolute $#@! to get off the line. There is a reason there is only 1 supercharged S65 (VAC E92 M3) that has ran an exceptional ET in the 1/4 mile while many others with similar and even more power cannot break into the 10's. The DCT is not good for the 1/4 mile, but it is great on roll on runs.
    Are you talking manual trans M3, or manual trans N54? I would suspect launching a manual M3, even supercharged, wouldnt be too much of a chore - it makes peanuts for torque. Your typical FBO N54 is making around 430wtq, which is not easy to deploy without hiroshima like effects.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Are you talking manual trans M3, or manual trans N54? I would suspect launching a manual M3, even supercharged, wouldnt be too much of a chore - it makes peanuts for torque. Your typical FBO N54 is making around 430wtq, which is not easy to deploy without hiroshima like effects.
    Do you really think a 430wtq N54 is a rocket with so much torque its impossible to cut sub 2.0 60 fts? I came from a FBO+Meth N54 and from my experiences and many others I've seen at the track its not too hard at all to get the car off the line with a good set of tires on it. Hell there are 1000rwhp supras and Z06's getting off the line with 6 times the amount of torque as the N54...all it takes is a good driver and good tires. The DCT in comparison has a mind of its own and you literally arent going anywhere quick unless you use LC (which works half the time for me).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Couldnt disagree with you more. With a DCT, you can focus on only feathering the throttle. Who the hell cuts a sub 2.0 60 ft with a FBO N54 MT by just dumping the clutch on street tires? It takes surgical precision to cut a decent 60 ft time on street tires, with a MT when your making decent power. I've been working on a proper launch technique for my car ever since i owned it, i either smoke the clutch, smoke the tires or bog. Rarely have i gotten any kind of decent launch and certainly not with record setting 60 ft times.
    Not sure what your issues with BuraQ are but launching a MT out on the lights regardless of available torque is neither surgery or rocket science. Been running MT’s since 1960 believe the DCT takes some getting used to. I think they are just significantly different in technique as opposed to either one being materially harder to launch.

    If you are, as stated, having all that much trouble launching the MT you might want to rethink your technique. Would seem to me you are knocking the AT & DCT to justify your own shortcomings with the manual.
    Kevin
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    Do you really think a 430wtq N54 is a rocket with so much torque its impossible to cut sub 2.0 60 fts? I came from a FBO+Meth N54 and from my experiences and many others I've seen at the track its not too hard at all to get the car off the line with a good set of tires on it. Hell there are 1000rwhp supras and Z06's getting off the line with 6 times the amount of torque as the N54...all it takes is a good driver and good tires. The DCT in comparison has a mind of its own and you literally arent going anywhere quick unless you use LC (which works half the time for me).
    Timeslips of your FBO+Meth street tire N54 MT cutting sub 2.0s? Not talking drag radials here, strictly everyday street tires.

    The low end torque is the issue, not overall POWA. Horsepower comes with RPM's, so wheel speed is much higher and the power wont cause massive spin vs loads of low end torque. Massive non-linear low end torque is unpredictable by nature, its hard to modulate the throttle especially with the stock drive by wire mapping.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory Click here to enlarge
    Not sure what your issues with BuraQ are but launching a MT out on the lights regardless of available torque is neither surgery or rocket science. Been running MTís since 1960 believe the DCT takes some getting used to. I think they are just significantly different in technique as opposed to either one being materially harder to launch.

    If you are, as stated, having all that much trouble launching the MT you might want to rethink your technique. Would seem to me you are knocking the AT & DCT to justify your own shortcomings with the manual.
    LOL, i have made a point to make the comments that the DCT is far superior, not sure how you missed those and proceeded to make the comment regarding my frustrations/shortcomings with a manual. Might be time to get your eyes checked. In the end i dont care, i am in no way a drag racer and enjoy my 6MT. If i was dragging, i would have gone AT for obvious reasons. Hell i would have splurged for a DCT trans if a proven upgraded clutch pack solutions exists, but my power goals exceed the current limitations of the DCT trans and the price to repair/upgrade/replace scared me away.

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