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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    This conversation is pointless. It can shift manually too? Most torque convert transmissions can do that too. a CVT with fixed gear ratios can do that too. But of course, after all i'm a stupid person and don't get it.
    No you don't get it because as just because it has software providing automatic shifts does not make it an automatic transmission. That is a generalization and an incorrect one. So because it can shift manually that makes it a manual transmission? It is simply it's own category. What is so hard to understand?

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    0 out of 4 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    If the shifting is automated, it's automatic. If they shifts are performed manually, it's manual. Pressing a button isn't shifting, it's triggering an automated sequence.

    DCT's days are numbered anyway. BMW's head of transmission design said they'll be changing to torque converter based automatics in the next generation. At least that should end the debate of if people own automatics or not.

    I'd post a link, but sticky set it up so I can't Click here to enlarge

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    Not sure why BMW would ditch DCT especially when they are moving away from manual. DCT, SMG, etc are becoming very popular. BMW has been screwing up lately but I highly doubt they will just put regular auto's in their cars especially the M brand. If anything, I can see DCT based transmissions becoming the norm.

    I don't think DCT, SMG, etc transmissions fall in either auto or manual category. It is it's own thing. I swear we had this discussion not long ago....
    2010 335i Coupe Le Mans Blue
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  4. #29
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    It seems like this discussion will never end here. I think everyone understands that the DCT is not a real automatic transmission because it doesnt have a torque converter, almost everyone knows this. I think what people are trying to say is that it doesn't have a manual clutch that you have to engage/disengange with your left foot, instead it has paddle shifters which are used to shift the car semi-manually, and it also has the the "D" drive which automatically shifts for you. <---so the term automatic applies, since there is no manual clutch. Yet, it's not an automatic transmission lol. I think we need new name designations for all transmissions, even the automatic ones with semi-automated shifting programs, as those could also be semi-automated transmissions, since they are using a program to let the driver shift the gears semi-manually, just like a DCT, but of course the mechanics are different from a DCT or SMG.

    Anyhow, this discussion is retarded.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Obioban Click here to enlarge
    If the shifting is automated, it's automatic. If they shifts are performed manually, it's manual. Pressing a button isn't shifting, it's triggering an automated sequence.

    DCT's days are numbered anyway. BMW's head of transmission design said they'll be changing to torque converter based automatics in the next generation. At least that should end the debate of if people own automatics or not.

    I'd post a link, but sticky set it up so I can't Click here to enlarge
    So if the shifting is manual it's manual? Makes sense.

    No, pressing a paddle is shifting as it won't shift unless you do.

    It is it's own category exactly as the definition for the transmission states.

    You are a guest vendor, no links. Also a douchebag.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Scourge82 Click here to enlarge
    I don't think DCT, SMG, etc transmissions fall in either auto or manual category. It is it's own thing. I swear we had this discussion not long ago...
    Exactly. People are stupid.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    I think what people are trying to say is that it doesn't have a manual clutch that you have to engage/disengange with your left foot
    Everyone knows this, it's pretty simple.

    What people don't get is the actual physical makeup of the transmission is closer to a manual than an automatic. It isn't an automatic, it is a dual clutch transmission with manual and auto shift modes.

    Yes, the discussion is retarded.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are a guest vendor
    I didn't know this. What company is run by Obi?

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I didn't know this. What company is run by Obi?
    One not worth anyone's time.

  10. #35
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    It's funny that Dct transmissions are rated as being the fastest and most effective. Ferrari even uses that BS to sell their cars and say it is formula 1 technology although F1 cars have sinle clutch trannies a la MCT.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    It's funny that Dct transmissions are rated as being the fastest and most effective. Ferrari even uses that BS to sell their cars and say it is formula 1 technology although F1 cars have sinle clutch trannies a la MCT.
    How is it BS? The DCT shifts faster than a single clutch. F1 rules prohibit a dual clutch but better believe the cars would be faster with it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How is it BS? The DCT shifts faster than a single clutch. F1 rules prohibit a dual clutch but better believe the cars would be faster with it.
    You fail too capture the weight disadvantage and complexity issues. They have to find the best balance of ruggedness, packaging and speed. In other words, Dct could be better but maybe not at all.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    You fail too capture the weight disadvantage and complexity issues.
    I do, do I? So the weight is sooo big of a hit the M5 runs what, 3 MPH faster and 4/10's quicker? Wow, what a penalty.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    They have to find the best balance of ruggedness, packaging and speed. In other words, Dct could be better
    How exactly could it be better?

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I do, do I? So the weight is sooo big of a hit the M5 runs what, 3 MPH faster and 4/10's quicker? Wow, what a penalty.



    How exactly could it be better?
    What are you comparing the m5 to? I think you misunderstood, I said that a Dct may be a better application for F1 than Mct but because we havent seen it done and the fact that there are other factors at play, it may not be at all.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    What are you comparing the m5 to? I think you misunderstood, I said that a Dct may be a better application for F1 than Mct but because we havent seen it done and the fact that there are other factors at play, it may not be at all.
    I am comparing the M5 manual and DCT. Also, the Porsche PDK versus manual comparison shows your points about the weight penalty are meaningless as the performance gain is so large is overshadows the extra 50 pounds or so.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I am comparing the M5 manual and DCT. Also, the Porsche PDK versus manual comparison shows your points about the weight penalty are meaningless as the performance gain is so large is overshadows the extra 50 pounds or so.
    Sticky you are not the brighest cat in the bunch thats for sure. What you just said is obvious... a fully manual transmission is and will always be slower than a dct. I was comparing a fully automated single clutch MCT tranny used in F1 in comparison to DCTs. Are you going to tell everyone now that the sun is hot?

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    F1 cars have more speed shift than most DCT's. The only DCT out there that can shift faster than F1 is the Getrag in BMW's which is claimed that it can do in 4ms though there is no evidence from either BMW or Getrag to back it up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    F1 cars have more speed shift than most DCT's. The only DCT out there that can shift faster than F1 is the Getrag in BMW's which is claimed that it can do in 4ms though there is no evidence from either BMW or Getrag to back it up.
    my point exactly

  19. #44
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    Just letting u guys know.. Bmw sees a dct transmission in group 28
    Automatic group 24
    manual group 23
    CVT group 24
    sound like they are different... They may act like a manual because of a cluth disc and may act like a automatic because u don't have a clutch pedal... End of day there different... I have replaceable all 4 transmission in different bmw models ... And yup there different lol Click here to enlarge
    for any smart ass cvt transmissions are in our bmw minis

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    F1 cars have more speed shift than most DCT's. The only DCT out there that can shift faster than F1 is the Getrag in BMW's which is claimed that it can do in 4ms though there is no evidence from either BMW or Getrag to back it up.
    Keep in mind that the reason F1 'boxes have a gap at all is due to the technical regs. No doubt they would have engineered shifts < 1ms by now had the FIA allowed it.
    Current: '00 S2000
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    Sticky you are not the brighest cat in the bunch thats for sure. What you just said is obvious... a fully manual transmission is and will always be slower than a dct. I was comparing a fully automated single clutch MCT tranny used in F1 in comparison to DCTs. Are you going to tell everyone now that the sun is hot?
    How am I not the brightest bulb when you continually keep bringing up some penalty for the DCT that doesn't exist? MCT, manual, whatever, DCT beats them all. So sorry your point held no water.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    F1 cars have more speed shift than most DCT's. The only DCT out there that can shift faster than F1 is the Getrag in BMW's which is claimed that it can do in 4ms though there is no evidence from either BMW or Getrag to back it up.
    You have absolutely no evidence to support this and are just making a blanket statement.

    The technology in a DCT can't be beat. It is what it is, how are you going to outshift something that already has the next gear pre-selected? You can't.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    Keep in mind that the reason F1 'boxes have a gap at all is due to the technical regs. No doubt they would have engineered shifts < 1ms by now had the FIA allowed it.
    And if the FIA allowed a DCT who knows how far they would take it...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How am I not the brightest bulb when you continually keep bringing up some penalty for the DCT that doesn't exist? MCT, manual, whatever, DCT beats them all. So sorry your point held no water.
    Not kissing ass but seriously Sticky I agree 100%....DCT ftw.... It's fast as $#@! and performs great for daily ...
    Talking about f1 lol on Hamilton last race

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You have absolutely no evidence to support this and are just making a blanket statement.
    The Renault transmission in Renault-Lotus in this season shift in 5ms. I don't know about others since they didn't release any info, but i don't think they are much far behind.

    Those transmissions are easily well over $100,000 per unit. Don't you think at that price they should be something special?

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