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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Out of curiosity, have you heard anything about heat soak on zl1's? I know the older gt500s had issues. Has the ZR1 had issues with it?
    It's pretty much going to be an issue with the TVS blower. They are not quite as efficient as a twin screw which also puts out a ton of heat.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    Thats is exactly what I am saying. The ZL1 isn't a road course car but it can drive like one. Nobody is going to enter it in a road race. I never said that. The CTS-V thing I posted because I get pleasure from arguing and disrespecting Joseph. He hates anything thats not an e92 M3
    you are an idiot.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    you know what being a man is, come on buddy you are white
    I hope this is a joke. Otherwise you have lost what little respect I had for you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's pretty much going to be an issue with the TVS blower. They are not quite as efficient as a twin screw which also puts out a ton of heat.
    Let's not pass judgment until its confirmed. Any rumors about zr-1 or cts-v heat soak? I think that would be a better indicator of the issue than generalized speculation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Let's not pass judgment until its confirmed. Any rumors about zr-1 or cts-v heat soak? I think that would be a better indicator of the issue than generalized speculation.
    It isn't generalized speculation it is simply physics with a positive displacement blower. The nature of the roots blower combined with a curb weight over 4000 pounds is going to create at on of heat on the road course.

    Here, guys on the Caddy forums are injecting meth to combat it: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...heat-soak.html
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Let's not pass judgment until its confirmed. Any rumors about zr-1 or cts-v heat soak? I think that would be a better indicator of the issue than generalized speculation.
    More:

    ran a lot of cars with my CTS-V. It is FASTER than the C63 AMG. On the V with a pulley, intake, and just a tune it "felt" around the same as a stock 09 GT-R but maybe a bit more top end pull.

    The CTS-V was also very weather dependant. It would experience heat soak easily and this hurts the results. Probably why the car is so embarassing in Florida, yet up in the NE we have them running 10's with bolt-ons.
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  7. #82
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    Evidence...excellent. Moving on.

    Now that this thread is back on topic I'd like to address one issue that I think is causing some of our disagreements. The difference between a car that is fast around a track (herein referred to as "fast car") and a "track car." Note that just cause a car is a "track car" doesn't mean its not fast, it just means its 6:00 am and I am up with my two month old and I'm too tired to think of a better name besides track car. Anyway...

    There is a big difference between a car that is fast around a track, ie. a "fast car" and a "track car." If we are talking numbers and the nurburgring, and Laguna Seca and professional drivers out there shaving tenths of a second off their cars, its tough to rip on the ZL1. It is a car that is capable of putting down pretty fast lap times. Yes its heavy but its also made up for that weight when it comes to power with engineering and power. At the end of the day with fast cars, its the lap times or other number being measured that matters, not the method used to achieve results. (see footnote 1 below). But fast cars are often designed with a few specific uses in mind, some are designed to go very fast around a track and/or in a straight line, or achieve a high top speed, etc. There are lots of cars that are "fast cars" that aren't necessarily track cars. To name a few, the ZL1, the CTS-v, the ZR-1, the Bugatti Veyron, the older supercars like the Diablo. You may find that people who own fast cars, don't necessarily spend a ton of time at tracks, although there are always exceptions to the rule. I sincerely believe a ZL1 would beat an m3 around a track without much trouble. Its a faster "fast car" than an m3. I'm sure the ring and laguna seca times will soon prove my point.

    Now, lets take a trip down reality lane and learn about track cars. Track cars sometimes won't put down a faster lap time than their fast car bretheren with a professional driver behind the wheen but a normal person driving both them will have a much better, easier, and more consistent time doing so. A novice driver may even produce faster times in a track car than in a faster fast car. Track cars are generally lighter, generally have a bit less power, are usually (but not always) NA. There are other things about track cars that are different too, they usually shift better/smoother, their pedals are easier to do fancy footwork with, their steering is lighter and more responsive, the visibility out of them is good. A track car is meant to go out, with a human driving it, and produce good, consistent, achievable lap times and have a blast doing it. Some cars that are great track cars: Miata, FR-s, BRZ, Lotus elise/exige, Caterham 7, Corvette z06 and the list goes on.

    A Z06 vs a ZR1 is a perfect case study. A ZR1 will produce faster lap times, acceleration times, and top speed numbers than a Z06. Look at the ring and laguna seca numbers, the ZR1 is a better "Fast Car." But i'd be willing to wager that all of us would rather spend a day at the track with a Z06 right? Its lighter, more nimble, more raw, naturally aspirated, it has all the attributes of a better "Track Car" even though it will likely produce slower lap times.

    The moral of the story is: Stop comparing apples to oranges. Just because a car can produce better lap times does not mean its a better track car and just because a car makes for a great track car, that doesn't mean its faster or will produce better lap times.

    Footnote 1: also known as a rant within a rant. It pisses me off when haters hate on fast cars due to the methods they use to achieve their results. Usually these haters have slower cars. For example, then the GTR came out and rocked the motoring world, everybody was $#@!ing about how its boring and slow and a computer is doing all the work, etc... WHO CARES! What matters is that its faster than its competition! That car was made to achieve the goal of putting down crazy lap times, its was designed to be a Fast Car. Another area people who are stupid are always $#@!ing is in horsepower. Honda guy loves to go on and on about specific output, "ooo my car makes 100 horsepower per litre naturally aspirated, your car sucks because it needs a turbo to make power or its got a big v8 that only makes $#@! per litre" but then he gets his ass kicked at the drag strip. When it comes to comparing numbers on cars, shut up about how the numbers are achieved and concentrate on the numbers because when it comes to fast cars all that matters is who's the fastest.

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Evidence...excellent. Moving on.

    Now that this thread is back on topic I'd like to address one issue that I think is causing some of our disagreements. The difference between a car that is fast around a track (herein referred to as "fast car") and a "track car." Note that just cause a car is a "track car" doesn't mean its not fast, it just means its 6:00 am and I am up with my two month old and I'm too tired to think of a better name besides track car. Anyway...

    There is a big difference between a car that is fast around a track, ie. a "fast car" and a "track car." If we are talking numbers and the nurburgring, and Laguna Seca and professional drivers out there shaving tenths of a second off their cars, its tough to rip on the ZL1. It is a car that is capable of putting down pretty fast lap times. Yes its heavy but its also made up for that weight when it comes to power with engineering and power. At the end of the day with fast cars, its the lap times or other number being measured that matters, not the method used to achieve results. (see footnote 1 below). But fast cars are often designed with a few specific uses in mind, some are designed to go very fast around a track and/or in a straight line, or achieve a high top speed, etc. There are lots of cars that are "fast cars" that aren't necessarily track cars. To name a few, the ZL1, the CTS-v, the ZR-1, the Bugatti Veyron, the older supercars like the Diablo. You may find that people who own fast cars, don't necessarily spend a ton of time at tracks, although there are always exceptions to the rule. I sincerely believe a ZL1 would beat an m3 around a track without much trouble. Its a faster "fast car" than an m3. I'm sure the ring and laguna seca times will soon prove my point.

    Now, lets take a trip down reality lane and learn about track cars. Track cars sometimes won't put down a faster lap time than their fast car bretheren with a professional driver behind the wheen but a normal person driving both them will have a much better, easier, and more consistent time doing so. A novice driver may even produce faster times in a track car than in a faster fast car. Track cars are generally lighter, generally have a bit less power, are usually (but not always) NA. There are other things about track cars that are different too, they usually shift better/smoother, their pedals are easier to do fancy footwork with, their steering is lighter and more responsive, the visibility out of them is good. A track car is meant to go out, with a human driving it, and produce good, consistent, achievable lap times and have a blast doing it. Some cars that are great track cars: Miata, FR-s, BRZ, Lotus elise/exige, Caterham 7, Corvette z06 and the list goes on.

    A Z06 vs a ZR1 is a perfect case study. A ZR1 will produce faster lap times, acceleration times, and top speed numbers than a Z06. Look at the ring and laguna seca numbers, the ZR1 is a better "Fast Car." But i'd be willing to wager that all of us would rather spend a day at the track with a Z06 right? Its lighter, more nimble, more raw, naturally aspirated, it has all the attributes of a better "Track Car" even though it will likely produce slower lap times.

    The moral of the story is: Stop comparing apples to oranges. Just because a car can produce better lap times does not mean its a better track car and just because a car makes for a great track car, that doesn't mean its faster or will produce better lap times.

    Footnote 1: also known as a rant within a rant. It pisses me off when haters hate on fast cars due to the methods they use to achieve their results. Usually these haters have slower cars. For example, then the GTR came out and rocked the motoring world, everybody was $#@!ing about how its boring and slow and a computer is doing all the work, etc... WHO CARES! What matters is that its faster than its competition! That car was made to achieve the goal of putting down crazy lap times, its was designed to be a Fast Car. Another area people who are stupid are always $#@!ing is in horsepower. Honda guy loves to go on and on about specific output, "ooo my car makes 100 horsepower per litre naturally aspirated, your car sucks because it needs a turbo to make power or its got a big v8 that only makes $#@! per litre" but then he gets his ass kicked at the drag strip. When it comes to comparing numbers on cars, shut up about how the numbers are achieved and concentrate on the numbers because when it comes to fast cars all that matters is who's the fastest.
    Well said Maddog.

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Evidence...excellent. Moving on.

    Now that this thread is back on topic I'd like to address one issue that I think is causing some of our disagreements. The difference between a car that is fast around a track (herein referred to as "fast car") and a "track car." Note that just cause a car is a "track car" doesn't mean its not fast, it just means its 6:00 am and I am up with my two month old and I'm too tired to think of a better name besides track car. Anyway...

    There is a big difference between a car that is fast around a track, ie. a "fast car" and a "track car." If we are talking numbers and the nurburgring, and Laguna Seca and professional drivers out there shaving tenths of a second off their cars, its tough to rip on the ZL1. It is a car that is capable of putting down pretty fast lap times. Yes its heavy but its also made up for that weight when it comes to power with engineering and power. At the end of the day with fast cars, its the lap times or other number being measured that matters, not the method used to achieve results. (see footnote 1 below). But fast cars are often designed with a few specific uses in mind, some are designed to go very fast around a track and/or in a straight line, or achieve a high top speed, etc. There are lots of cars that are "fast cars" that aren't necessarily track cars. To name a few, the ZL1, the CTS-v, the ZR-1, the Bugatti Veyron, the older supercars like the Diablo. You may find that people who own fast cars, don't necessarily spend a ton of time at tracks, although there are always exceptions to the rule. I sincerely believe a ZL1 would beat an m3 around a track without much trouble. Its a faster "fast car" than an m3. I'm sure the ring and laguna seca times will soon prove my point.

    Now, lets take a trip down reality lane and learn about track cars. Track cars sometimes won't put down a faster lap time than their fast car bretheren with a professional driver behind the wheen but a normal person driving both them will have a much better, easier, and more consistent time doing so. A novice driver may even produce faster times in a track car than in a faster fast car. Track cars are generally lighter, generally have a bit less power, are usually (but not always) NA. There are other things about track cars that are different too, they usually shift better/smoother, their pedals are easier to do fancy footwork with, their steering is lighter and more responsive, the visibility out of them is good. A track car is meant to go out, with a human driving it, and produce good, consistent, achievable lap times and have a blast doing it. Some cars that are great track cars: Miata, FR-s, BRZ, Lotus elise/exige, Caterham 7, Corvette z06 and the list goes on.

    A Z06 vs a ZR1 is a perfect case study. A ZR1 will produce faster lap times, acceleration times, and top speed numbers than a Z06. Look at the ring and laguna seca numbers, the ZR1 is a better "Fast Car." But i'd be willing to wager that all of us would rather spend a day at the track with a Z06 right? Its lighter, more nimble, more raw, naturally aspirated, it has all the attributes of a better "Track Car" even though it will likely produce slower lap times.

    The moral of the story is: Stop comparing apples to oranges. Just because a car can produce better lap times does not mean its a better track car and just because a car makes for a great track car, that doesn't mean its faster or will produce better lap times.

    Footnote 1: also known as a rant within a rant. It pisses me off when haters hate on fast cars due to the methods they use to achieve their results. Usually these haters have slower cars. For example, then the GTR came out and rocked the motoring world, everybody was $#@!ing about how its boring and slow and a computer is doing all the work, etc... WHO CARES! What matters is that its faster than its competition! That car was made to achieve the goal of putting down crazy lap times, its was designed to be a Fast Car. Another area people who are stupid are always $#@!ing is in horsepower. Honda guy loves to go on and on about specific output, "ooo my car makes 100 horsepower per litre naturally aspirated, your car sucks because it needs a turbo to make power or its got a big v8 that only makes $#@! per litre" but then he gets his ass kicked at the drag strip. When it comes to comparing numbers on cars, shut up about how the numbers are achieved and concentrate on the numbers because when it comes to fast cars all that matters is who's the fastest.
    Your point about a car being faster than others being all that matters is a narrow and shallow interpretation. Part of the fun factor in a car or what makes it good is how it goes about achieving those numbers.

    How the car makes you feel, how it responds, how it sounds, etc. I have a much faster car than a GTR and could have either. I chose my car because it is way more fun to drive and far more responsive. It also does not drive itself like the GTR does making it nothing more than an expensive video game.

    The issue here was that someone said the Camaro was a track car. It is not. It just handles well for a muscle car.

    I stand by my point that an M3 GTS would crush the ZL1 around Laguna Seca. We saw an m3 with minor mods recently spank a GTR. Sorry, physics simply won't allow for a 4200 pound car that will be feeling its weight after a lap to hang with a car 1000 pounds lighter and actually built as a road course vehicle.

    The Camaro is nice and all and a value and whatnot but to be taken seriously as a road course vehicle it needs a lot work. Kind of like what the cts-v sees when it is transformed into a track car.
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  10. #85
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    http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html


    GT500 runs a faster time at Streets of Willow than the ZL1 but they say they prefer the ZL1 for the track and that its more consistent
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  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
    http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html


    GT500 runs a faster time at Streets of Willow than the ZL1 but they say they prefer the ZL1 for the track and that its more consistent
    Streets is tight... things are getting interesting.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Streets is tight.

    That's an understatement.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    after having stared at my engine bay for the last 3 weeks I can tell you there is NO supercharger in this picture....nowhere for it to fit under that cover for sure....and im the biggest CTS-V fan on this site im sure.
    "We need to upgrade your skill before we upgrade your horsepower"

    -Tommy to Josh

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    Pretty interesting cause the other Mag had the zl1 faster around another track
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    after having stared at my engine bay for the last 3 weeks I can tell you there is NO supercharger in this picture....nowhere for it to fit under that cover for sure....and im the biggest CTS-V fan on this site im sure.
    So from what I have found online. Scca wouldn't allow it on the 4 door race car a couple years ago but have revised the rules and the new ctsv coupe racecar has te supercharger
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
    So from what I have found online. Scca wouldn't allow it on the 4 door race car a couple years ago but have revised the rules and the new ctsv coupe racecar has te supercharger
    There was no SC in that pic....I've been staring at my block for 3 weeks.....i know how big that tvs1900 is
    "We need to upgrade your skill before we upgrade your horsepower"

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
    There was no SC in that pic....I've been staring at my block for 3 weeks.....i know how big that tvs1900 is
    Of course there is no SC in that pic.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Your point about a car being faster than others being all that matters is a narrow and shallow interpretation. Part of the fun factor in a car or what makes it good is how it goes about achieving those numbers.

    How the car makes you feel, how it responds, how it sounds, etc. I have a much faster car than a GTR and could have either. I chose my car because it is way more fun to drive and far more responsive. It also does not drive itself like the GTR does making it nothing more than an expensive video game.

    The issue here was that someone said the Camaro was a track car. It is not. It just handles well for a muscle car.

    I stand by my point that an M3 GTS would crush the ZL1 around Laguna Seca. We saw an m3 with minor mods recently spank a GTR. Sorry, physics simply won't allow for a 4200 pound car that will be feeling its weight after a lap to hang with a car 1000 pounds lighter and actually built as a road course vehicle.

    The Camaro is nice and all and a value and whatnot but to be taken seriously as a road course vehicle it needs a lot work. Kind of like what the cts-v sees when it is transformed into a track car.
    Your interpretation was shallow my friend. I think you missed my point about the fast car vs track car comparison. I completely agree that there is a lot more to a car than the numbers. My point was that certain cars are meant to just lay down big time numbers and others are true track cars and its silly to compare apples to oranges.


    But yes, i agree its not a "track car" but it is a fast car. If a magazine or other professional tester was comparing the cars the camaro would win. That being said i would prefer the gts for a track day.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    Your interpretation was shallow my friend. I think you missed my point about the fast car vs track car comparison. I completely agree that there is a lot more to a car than the numbers. My point was that certain cars are meant to just lay down big time numbers and others are true track cars and its silly to compare apples to oranges.


    But yes, i agree its not a "track car" but it is a fast car. If a magazine or other professional tester was comparing the cars the camaro would win. That being said i would prefer the gts for a track day.
    I disagree you stated it is about the numbers. What do you consider a track car and do you consider a car just for numbers?

    It is a fast car that can corner. More muscle than track.
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