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  1. #1
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    BT tool put to the test

    I Guess this pretty much proves that Shiv is full of it in regards to his claims about the BT cable.

    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8628

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90AW335I
    Long story short for you guys...

    1 month ago - long cranks, stuttering during partial throttle, etc. Took out the JB3, cleared all codes (had some 30FF and other misc from pushing it and customizing, etc). I ran it stock for a couple of weeks to reproduce the Fuel pump codes and then took it to the dealer.

    Now, according to Shiv and the other followers over on e90, BMW should have seen all of those codes that were cleared, right?

    Well, my dealership did a scan and SENT ALL DATA TO BMWNA to be analyzed. They came back and replaced my fuel pump immediately without hesitation.

    I came to pick up the car and they noted I was throwing a fuel pump code every 300-500 miles...lol. Did they mention any tuner codes, or any other codes at all? Nope. Was there any additional codes listed on the print out they showed me...nope, none that the BT didn't already tell me about.

    So, it would seem as if Shiv is full of crap...but I guess you guys already knew that since you are on this forum rather then the other.

    This might seem obvious to the regular forum members here, but for the newbies it is always good to see actual data/information put up against the BS spread by other companies.

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    The whole BT tool thing did not work out Shiv's favor.

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    I have a PROcede and a JB3.. got the BT back when I first bought the JB3. I love the damn thing, I wouldn't have my car with out it now. But haven't used it since I started using the PROcede... That's not really my point though, BT = Awesomeness!

    But this forum is turning into I hate Shiv/Vishnu and everything they stand for more than actual reasonable conversations.. my $.02

    p.s.. personally doesn't bother me, just thought someone should point it out.. I don't nut hug as JPSlick puts it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandyr Click here to enlarge
    I have a PROcede and a JB3.. got the BT back when I first bought the JB3. I love the damn thing, I wouldn't have my car with out it now. But haven't used it since I started using the PROcede... That's not really my point though, BT = Awesomeness!

    But this forum is turning into I hate Shiv/Vishnu and everything they stand for more than actual reasonable conversations.. my $.02

    p.s.. personally doesn't bother me, just thought someone should point it out.. I don't nut hug as JPSlick puts it.
    Depends which side you stand on. There are just a lot more BMS fans here than Vishnu fans as Terry and BMS make a large impact in the member base. Both sides get their say though (more than anywhere else) and Vishnu gets tremendous leeway with that for a vendor that does not sponsor. If anything, Vishnu gets plenty of opportunities to partake in reasonable conversations even at the expense of BMS at times. It would be more balanced if the main Procede fanbase was not trying to censor this place but hey, doesn't bother me too much anymore, just wanted to point it out.

    This thread just happens to be about yet another battle in the war and this result seemed to support one side.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Depends which side you stand on. There are just a lot more BMS fans here than Vishnu fans as Terry and BMS make a large impact in the member base. Both sides get their say though (more than anywhere else) and Vishnu gets tremendous leeway with that for a vendor that does not sponsor. If anything, Vishnu gets plenty of opportunities to partake in reasonable conversations even at the expense of BMS at times. It would be more balanced if the main Procede fanbase was not trying to censor this place but hey, doesn't bother me too much anymore, just wanted to point it out.

    This thread just happens to be about yet another battle in the war and this result seemed to support one side.
    Well I stand and no side, cause I get paid by none.. on the contrary I've had to give them my money. But was just bringing something up that I notice. It could be that you're sensored over at e90 and don't get as many opportunities to bring people over. Again, I appreciate the fact that this is more open than e90 is. Which is cool, but it's been a $#@!ing fest lately, with only a few posts really containing useful info.

    But I don't want to get into a $#@!ing fest my self, simply stating what I noticed to bring it to your attention regardless of reason. If that's ok with you than my point is moot anyways.

    And before someone gets sand in their p*s*y (not intended at you Sticky).. this is not a JB3 vs PROcede post. It's only about a trend I've noticed.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandyr Click here to enlarge
    Well I stand and no side, cause I get paid by none.. on the contrary I've had to give them my money. But was just bringing something up that I notice. It could be that you're sensored over at e90 and don't get as many opportunities to bring people over. Again, I appreciate the fact that this is more open than e90 is. Which is cool, but it's been a $#@!ing fest lately, with only a few posts really containing useful info.

    But I don't want to get into a $#@!ing fest my self, simply stating what I noticed to bring it to your attention regardless of reason. If that's ok with you than my point is moot anyways.

    And before someone gets sand in their p*s*y (not intended at you Sticky).. this is not a JB3 vs PROcede post. It's only about a trend I've noticed.
    If this has been a $#@!ing fest you should take a look at the JB3 upgrade thread over there. 90% of the posts are $#@!ing and the other 10% of the posts debate if the $#@!ing is warranted or not.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If this has been a $#@!ing fest you should take a look at the JB3 upgrade thread over there. 90% of the posts are $#@!ing and the other 10% of the posts debate if the $#@!ing is warranted or not.
    Oh, I know e90 is $#@!ing central, never said otherwise. And I hate the fact that Mike's the one that has to show face on the JB3 side. So I love coming over sometimes to read Shiv vs Terry posts.. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, you don't need to accept it or even like it..
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandyr Click here to enlarge
    But this forum is turning into I hate Shiv/Vishnu and everything they stand for more than actual reasonable conversations.. my $.02
    I dont see how this thread is a "I hate Shiv/Vishnu thread. A company claimed that a product wasn't doing what it was advertised to do. This thread simply disproves said company.
    Like E90AW335I said.."it is always good to see actual data/information put up against the BS spread by other companies."

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    Unless E90AW335I's car triggered tuner codes (2D18/2D25), there is no reasons for BMW to not replace the FP under warranty. And even if it did, BMW is not likely to deny the replacement of a known faulty part.

    It's also worth noting that any codes that were still in the DME's cache, and sent to AG over the network, are not intended to be visible at the dealer level. So BMW AG wont even give them this information to the dealership unless the situation calls for it. This has all been discussed before on the other forum. And even Duram from BT has provided info that supports this. Not to mention info that I've received directly from a trusty field engineeer at AG telling me just this.

    It's also interesting that for someone who has literally begged to be able to resell the Procede's, E90AW335I's disparaging posts are disingenuous. Yes, I've politely denied his requires time and time again. If E90AW335I doesn't have any objections, I'll be happy to post up the email correspondence. It's interesting how he can sing the praises of our product via private emails but publicly bash it when he doesn't get what he wants. Kids these days.... sigh.

    Cheers
    shiv

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    Hes not bashing your product Shiv. No one here bashes the PROcede. They question the claims you make about Terry's product being insufficient, and his partner products being just the same. Which usually turns out to be untrue. No one is questioning the PROcedes capability or power here. The word being challenged is yours, not your product (which is perfectly normal and happens to everyone).

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    This is my first post here since I had several posts censored in another thread some time ago. It is probably my last post here but I will still read here to see what is going on.

    Sticky, it may be true that you offer a more even ground than other forums for tuners that are not sponsors, but at the end of the day you do the same as the other forums which is to censor the posts of members that are deemed to be too negative to sponsors. Your thresholds are just a little more tolerant.

    You know as well as I do that I never said anything that was not true and backed up when I was censored. I simply questioned an opionion stated regarding the Procede, and then answered questions. When I state information I clearly state whether it is my opinion or based on evidence. I have a preference because I am involved with the Procede, but I never give misinformation to support it, and I believe I can provide an unbiased appraisal of products in this market. I am very open and honest in my posts, and yet I still got censored. I would have totally understood if I had been censored for taking jabs at your sponsors that were claimed to be fact and were not, or having a go for no real reason, but I did not and never have, and happy for people to try and find evidence to contrary. In this case, the Procede simply had the runs on the board on this discussion and made the sponsors products look bad, so I was censored.

    So while my posts are going to be censored for participating in an open an honest discussion, I will refrain from posting here, as it is a waste of my time to get involved in discussions only to have my posts censored.

    Also, I think that due to this censorship, you would be dishonest to claim that Vishnu can participate on this forum on equal footing to other tuners. This is not the case as evidenced by my censorship, yet in another thread here other tuners are having a go at my posting on another forum which is unrelated to any technical discussion without being censored. The simple fact of the matter is that sponsors can say alot more on this forum than Vishnu, so Vishnu either need to regulate posts more than sponsors or they get censored.

    Anyway, just explaining my lack recent and future involvement since the discussion was on similar things.

    Adrian

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge

    Sticky, it may be true that you offer a more even ground than other forums for tuners that are not sponsors, but at the end of the day you do the same as the other forums which is to censor the posts of members that are deemed to be too negative to sponsors. Your thresholds are just a little more tolerant.
    Example? A little more tolerant? Adrian, all these refugees commenting on the freedom must just have very little tolerance, eh?

    Oh, you are referring to being censored as in not being allowed to market at the expense of another company? You are upset that I did not allow Vishnu to crap on CP-E, who is a paying sponsor? So freedom in your eyes is guest vendors doing whatever they want at the expense of paying sponsors? Are you serious right now? Vishnu is still allowed to post even when going into competitors threads who are paying sponsors and taking them off track to boast about the Procede. My friend, that is not a little more tolerant, that is as laissez-faire as possible without chaos. I find your interpretation shallow, one sided, and ungrateful.

    You know as well as I do that I never said anything that was not true and backed up when I was censored. I simply questioned an opionion stated regarding the Procede, and then answered questions. When I state information I clearly state whether it is my opinion or based on evidence. I have a preference because I am involved with the Procede, but I never give misinformation to support it, and I believe I can provide an unbiased appraisal of products in this market. I am very open and honest in my posts, and yet I still got censored. I would have totally understood if I had been censored for taking jabs at your sponsors that were claimed to be fact and were not, or having a go for no real reason, but I did not and never have, and happy for people to try and find evidence to contrary. In this case, the Procede simply had the runs on the board on this discussion and made the sponsors products look bad, so I was censored.
    Excuse me, you are not a user! You are a VENDOR. Does this really need to be spelled out for you? You will not be allowed to market at someones expense and certainly not for free. If this was not as tolerant as it is you would not post until you paid, period. That is how it works where you are from. No one has said you do not post good info or are not respectful however that does not mean you can simply waltz into whatever supporting vendors thread you want and take it off track in Vishnu's favor. This is something I thought you would be able to understand but it seems Vishnu wants to do whatever is best for Vishnu while pissing all over our extremely lenient rules.

    So while my posts are going to be censored for participating in an open an honest discussion, I will refrain from posting here, as it is a waste of my time to get involved in discussions only to have my posts censored.

    Also, I think that due to this censorship, you would be dishonest to claim that Vishnu can participate on this forum on equal footing to other tuners. This is not the case as evidenced by my censorship, yet in another thread here other tuners are having a go at my posting on another forum which is unrelated to any technical discussion without being censored. The simple fact of the matter is that sponsors can say alot more on this forum than Vishnu, so Vishnu either need to regulate posts more than sponsors or they get censored.
    I never stated Vishnu would be allowed to participate on this forum on equal footing to other tuners. You should probably take a look at the guest vendor rules since you do not seem to understand them. You are sounding a lot like AR Design when they were not allowed to bash ASR. The simple fact is that sponsors can say a lot more than Vishnu because they are sponsors. Vishnu isn't a sponsor, are you serious right now? You guys are complaining you can't attack supporting vendors for free? I have told Shiv all off this many times and he understands it quite well. You have gotten more leeway than any guest vendor ever would. Thank you for repaying me by spitting on me for it.

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    For the record I don't think anyone should be censored here. If posts are too off topic they can just be moved to new threads, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    For the record I don't think anyone should be censored here. If posts are too off topic they can just be moved to new threads, etc.
    No user has been censored. Guest vendors won't be allowed to market at the expense of a supporting vendor. Here we go again... Click here to enlarge

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    Sticky,
    Could you pls tell me how Adrian "bashed" CPE? Iirc, you made a technical claim about their product and Adrian just asked you to support that claim in technical manner. Zero bashing towards any vendor. Instead of backing up your claim, you deleted his post. And I recall it being quite an informative post. It's your board, your rules. Totally cool. It was a couple weeks ago and I don't lose sleep over it. But Adrian is a pretty technical guy. Instead of letting a technical discussion continue, you stopped it dead in its tracks. Which is a shame because I think readers would have benefitted from it.

    It's only recently you have ever even brought up the topic of vendership with me. I recall u asking me to participate with no such conditions. Things change and I'm fine with that. I thank u for inviting me in the first place. It was fun hanging out with you guys.

    Cheers
    Shiv

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Sticky,
    Could you pls tell me how Adrian "bashed" CPE? Iirc, you made a technical claim about their product and Adrian just asked you to support that claim in technical manner. Zero bashing towards any vendor. Instead of backing up your claim, you deleted his post. And I recall it being quite an informative post. It's your board, your rules. Totally cool. It was a couple weeks ago and I don't lose sleep over it. But Adrian is a pretty technical guy. Instead of letting a technical discussion continue, you stopped it dead in its tracks. Which is a shame because I think readers would have benefitted from it.

    It's only recently you have ever even brought up the topic of vendership with me. I recall u asking me to participate with no such conditions. Things change and I'm fine with that. I thank u for inviting me in the first place. It was fun hanging out with you guys.

    Cheers
    Shiv
    Adrian did not bash CP-E. If you read the thread, it is self explanatory:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Post Edited due to violation of Guest Vendor rules.

    Adrian and Vishnu, we welcome your participation and have very flexible guest vendor rules when a topic is started by someone else and happens to be about your product. However, this topic is about a CP-E product and it is not fair to supporting vendors who spend considerable time and money here to have Vishnu market at their expense.

    Please do not take this the wrong way as we all appreciate your technical contributions but Vishnu has been given TREMENDOUS leeway and is starting to encroach on territory that weakens the positions of vendors who have supported BB from the beginning. We do not want to make it sound as if we do not want your participation, as we do, however, the focus here is the CP-E Standback and not the Procede.
    It was a very informative post. However, the thread was about the CP-E standback and CP-E products for CP-E who is a supporting vendor here. When there is a vishnu thread, feel free to post as much as you want (you guys do.) Adrian is a very technical guy and I think I made my appreciation for his posts quite clear.

    I'm sorry to see you are only willing to participate when it benefits Vishnu at the cost of others. BimmerBoost has evolved and we make sure to respect the vendors who support us. Some just want to take advantage of our lenient rules and it seems that once they have used up that generosity and it no longer benefits them they want to leave.

    I thank you for participating but if you can not follow the rules for guest vendors there is not much I can do for you. I won't throw out the rules for Vishnu and I won't hang our supporting vendors out to dry. If Vishnu wants to be treated like a supporting vendor, Vishnu should be a supporting vendor.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Adrian did not bash CP-E. If you read the thread, it is self explanatory:



    It was a very informative post. However, the thread was about the CP-E standback and CP-E products for CP-E who is a supporting vendor here. When there is a vishnu thread, feel free to post as much as you want (you guys do.) Adrian is a very technical guy and I think I made my appreciation for his posts quite clear.

    I'm sorry to see you are only willing to participate when it benefits Vishnu at the cost of others. BimmerBoost has evolved and we make sure to respect the vendors who support us. Some just want to take advantage of our lenient rules and it seems that once they have used up that generosity and it no longer benefits them they want to leave.

    I thank you for participating but if you can not follow the rules for guest vendors there is not much I can do for you. I won't throw out the rules for Vishnu and I won't hang our supporting vendors out to dry. If Vishnu wants to be treated like a supporting vendor, Vishnu should be a supporting vendor.
    Sticky- Adrian politely challenged your statement if you recall. A statement he rightfully felt was misleading. Absolutely no one was "discredited". You could have moved his post and started another thread which would have been a good opportunity to have a really good technical discussion for all. And you would have gotten the uncensored, multiple-vendor technical discussion that I thought you would want. Instead, you deleted it.

    Which is surprising considering the Don King-style spams you post on e90post that are titled in a way to draw traffic to your site. Spams which reference me specifically. It seems you want your forum to be the hotbed for controversy. But only conditionally.

    Shiv

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Sticky- Adrian politely challenged your statement if you recall. A statement he rightfully felt was misleading. Absolutely no one was "discredited". You could have moved his post and started another thread which would have been a good opportunity to have a really good technical discussion for all. And you would have gotten the uncensored, multiple-vendor technical discussion that I thought you would want. Instead, you deleted it.

    Which is surprising considering the Don King-style spams you post on e90post that are titled in a way to draw traffic to your site. Spams which reference me specifically. It seems you want your forum to be the hotbed for controversy. But only conditionally.

    Shiv
    I don't remember Adrian saying anything earlier. What are you specifically citing? Shiv, correct, I could have moved his post and started a new thread as I have the ability to do so. However, you may have noticed in the guest vendor rules where it states guest vendors will not create threads to discuss their products but can correct what they feel are erroneous statements about their products in threads started by users. So you are saying I should have essentially allowed Adrian to circumvent this and create his own thread? Shiv, have you actually taken a look at the guest vendor rules?

    We do have multiple vendor discussion, you are discussing right now among other vendors.

    And finally, I don't spam e90post. I saw a thread where a link was posted here, which was not posted by me, where you commented on it as "lame" as it was to a thread that was not favorable to you. I would say the only conditional aspect here is that you are asking to be treated like a supporting vendor without having to be a supporting vendor. I don't find that fair at all to any of our paying sponsors. I do not take the time to "Don King" spam but I believe I know some of the people who have and I don't discourage them from doing so. You may find this hard to believe, but some users here are not fond of you and enjoy posting links to information in a place where you can't censor them.

    This is the problem with being kind to people and allowing them more freedom, they abuse it. If we simply had the e90post policy of forcing any and all vendors into fees we wouldn't be having this discussion. As a matter of fact, no other site even takes the guest vendor approach we do with a custom usergroup whereby we allow you the very generous but limited ability in addressing your product so it is not one sided. If other sites had this policy, BMS for example would not have to sponsor through others to even address a single statement.

    What would you like me to do to make you happy Shiv? Just allow you to do whatever it is you want? You have been treated very fairly so I just do not see what it is you are upset about right now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And finally, I don't spam e90post. I saw a thread where a link was posted here, which was not posted by me, where you commented on it as "lame" as it was to a thread that was not favorable to you. I would say the only conditional aspect here is that you are asking to be treated like a supporting vendor without having to be a supporting vendor. I don't find that fair at all to any of our paying sponsors. I do not take the time to "Don King" spam but I believe I know some of the people who have and I don't discourage them from doing so. You may find this hard to believe, but some users here are not fond of you and enjoy posting links to information in a place where you can't censor them..
    Sticky, you state you don't spam E90Post...........care to explain the following PM you are sending out to members over there. I'd hate to state the obvious but it seems you fell on your own sword with your own statement above.Click here to enlarge


    Originally Posted by You know it
    Subject: "Bimmer Boost is taking over "
    Bimmer Boost .com is now the fastest growing BMW performance forum. Thanks to not banning users at the drop of a hat, not deleteting/locking everything, and giving you content that you can't get anywhere else like:

    ESS vs. Powerchip vs. Gintani Dyno Shootout

    DCT vs. Manual Drivetrain Losses

    World's first DCT transmission rebuild

    BMS vs. Vishnu on N54 tuning

    Racing Videos

    Uncensored Off Topic

    Come check out the site BimmerPost is desperately scared off and what thousands already have. Bimmer Boost is changing the game.
    Last edited by Sparky66; 07-03-2010 at 03:42 AM.

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    the reason why Vishnu is so mad is that the Standback is going to be used in both ST applications, and they aren't on the winning side

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    Shiv/Adrian,

    Having all tuners coming together on one forum is what we hoped for since we starting building this site. Shiv, if you recall, you and I spoke some time ago on the phone and I expressed to you our intentions on having tuners becoming part of the community while maintaining a level playing field. I even emailed you a few times and asked you about the possibility of doing a giveaway for a PROcede unit with hopes that we could incorporate Vishnu as a sponsor at some point. We are glad you guys joined the site and have become somewhat active... there's no doubt that you guys have made great contributions along with our other sponsors and have sparked the interest of many of our members with your debates and explanations. With that being said, you guys need to understand our point of view when it comes to our current sponsors. One of the big issues with other BMW sites is the fact that certain sponsors get preference over others and sometimes this is frustrating for users as well as "other" sponsors.

    Adrian, I understand your point. You are very knowledgeable and technical, but we simply will not allow a guest vendor to come into a sponsor's thread and blatantly try to discredit them. There's a fine line in the equation which we allow to blur at times by looking the other way, but we need to maintain some concrete rules to support our sponsors.

    I hope Vishnu realizes that BB is about being fair to our supporters and users and understands why we need to enforce our ground rules.

    Our offer stands on bringing you guys on board our rapidly growing community.

    Alex
    Click here to enlarge

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    Whoa there. I'm not upset at all. Well, I am a little but that's only because I've been waiting in front of the apple store for 2hrs and i'm upset at myself for being a shameless apple fanboi. I post here very infrequently. Adrian even less. So please don't tell us that we are taking advantage of your kindness. That's a little unfair. We mainly post here to defend ourselves against the hostiles Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Whoa there. I'm not upset at all. Well, I am a little but that's only because I've been waiting in front of the apple store for 2hrs and i'm upset at myself for being a shameless apple fanboi. I post here very infrequently. Adrian even less. So please don't tell us that we are taking advantage of your kindness. That's a little unfair. We mainly post here to defend ourselves against the hostiles Click here to enlarge
    Shiv, it is not unfair at all. When you do post, it is for a specific purpose and for your advantage. 1 post or 1 million that is still far more leniency than you get anywhere else. Not an issue of quantity.

    Yes, you mainly post to defend yourself and you have done exactly that. So, how is that unfair? Isn't it fair that you are able to do so?

    This new Iphone is a bigger deal than I realized.

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    Just for clarification....

    When I was censored, I questioned an opinion that the Procede was nolonger the most advanced tuning option for the N54. I did not create a thread, or start an unrelated discussion subject. I simply questioned a statement made about the Procede. The discussion then progressed to what makes one tune more advanced than another. I pointed out what I thought made the Procede more advanced than others. I stated that it was my opinion. Other people stated their opinion (and I did not put any opinion down), and questioned mine, and responded in the nature of the discussion. At some point someone must have decided that this discussion was considered to be too negative to sponsors and my posts were censored. I don't see how I broke any rules. I never bashed anything or attacked anyone. I simply pointed out the differences in technologies, and why I thought the Procede was the most advanced. I certainly did not crap on CP-E. I just asked for justification as to why they should claim that title and explained why Vishnu had made decissions that were different to others (like level of user adjustability).

    Now as a guest vendor, we can't start threads, so we can only comment in threads to defend our product. This is what I did. I am obviously missing something here. As a guest vendor we are expected to appreciate the privledge of being able to come over and get walked on by your sponsors or work out some way of defending our product without being interpretted as marketting it (is that possible)??

    I am happy to be censored for attacks or discrediting your sponsors, but if I cannot be involved in a discussion about the Procede (where I did not start it) where I have not done anything other than discuss technical details and opinions on benefits of these details, then I am out of here. Why would I want to give your sponsors the satisfaction and marketting benefit of being seen to "outsmart" us because we are unable to defend.

    Also, I see this as a two way street. You keep going on about how generous you are to us. You allow us over here as long as we do not market. Why would we come here otherwise? I have better things to do than to participate in discussions for the fun of it on 3 different forums. Vishnu is a business and we enjoy doing it, but we have to feed our families. On the other hand, you get the benefit of attracting more traffic if all prominent tuners are here. Your users also get the substantial benefit of the knowledge we are willing to share which attracts more traffic. Without us here you are just like the other forums that only represent the sponsors.

    So let me know if I should come back and what the conditions are.

    Cheers,

    Adrian

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by adrian@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Just for clarification....

    When I was censored, I questioned an opinion that the Procede was nolonger the most advanced tuning option for the N54. I did not create a thread, or start an unrelated discussion subject. I simply questioned a statement made about the Procede. The discussion then progressed to what makes one tune more advanced than another. I pointed out what I thought made the Procede more advanced than others. I stated that it was my opinion. Other people stated their opinion (and I did not put any opinion down), and questioned mine, and responded in the nature of the discussion. At some point someone must have decided that this discussion was considered to be too negative to sponsors and my posts were censored. I don't see how I broke any rules. I never bashed anything or attacked anyone. I simply pointed out the differences in technologies, and why I thought the Procede was the most advanced. I certainly did not crap on CP-E. I just asked for justification as to why they should claim that title and explained why Vishnu had made decissions that were different to others (like level of user adjustability).

    Now as a guest vendor, we can't start threads, so we can only comment in threads to defend our product. This is what I did. I am obviously missing something here. As a guest vendor we are expected to appreciate the privledge of being able to come over and get walked on by your sponsors or work out some way of defending our product without being interpretted as marketting it (is that possible)??

    I am happy to be censored for attacks or discrediting your sponsors, but if I cannot be involved in a discussion about the Procede (where I did not start it) where I have not done anything other than discuss technical details and opinions on benefits of these details, then I am out of here. Why would I want to give your sponsors the satisfaction and marketting benefit of being seen to "outsmart" us because we are unable to defend.
    Yes, this is what you did and no one said you did any differently. How you broke the rules in that the thread is you went in a thread about a supporting a vendors products and shifted the focus. CP-E is a business and expects to get the exposure they are paying for. They are not paying to discuss Vishnu's products in threads about their products, that seems to be the component you are missing.

    Also, I see this as a two way street. You keep going on about how generous you are to us. You allow us over here as long as we do not market. Why would we come here otherwise? I have better things to do than to participate in discussions for the fun of it on 3 different forums. Vishnu is a business and we enjoy doing it, but we have to feed our families. On the other hand, you get the benefit of attracting more traffic if all prominent tuners are here. Your users also get the substantial benefit of the knowledge we are willing to share which attracts more traffic. Without us here you are just like the other forums that only represent the sponsors.
    I did not realize I was so privileged to have Vishnu here. Why is it that Vishnu is a business and yet BimmerBoost isn't? So when BimmerBoost attempts to protect its business interests by enforcing the rules that is out of line somehow? Why would we have supporting vendors if we are not going to allow them to get the marketing they paid for? You acknowledge Vishnu is a business and here to market. So why not become a supporting vendor and market to your hearts content? Every other vendor understands this, so where is the conflict? Why is Vishnu somehow above the rules that are understood by everyone else? If we did not feel there was a benefit and did not want to share as much information as possible without stepping on vendors toes we would not even have guest vendor rules.

    This is also very simple, if Vishnu wants complete freedom, please become a supporting vendor in order to market like a supporting vendor. You guys make a bunch of money and our rates are the lowest in the entire industry by a huge margin. If we don't represent our sponsors correctly and give them the most for their money then there hardly is any incentive to be a sponsor, now is there?

    You are already familiar with various vendor tiers from your home board. This is nothing new to you, you understand all of this.

    So let me know if I should come back and what the conditions are.
    There are no conditions and you are free to post as you always have been. If you do not want guest vendor restrictions e-mail administrator@bimmerboost.com and have them lifted.

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