Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -230.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No

    Audi S6 vs MB E63 vs BMW M5 by C&D

    Figured we need traffic here so i'm posting this here. And man it's full of $#@!. I really didn't expect this from C&D. An S6 over E63? Click here to enlarge

    3rd Place: M5

    Highs:

    A leather-lined bullet for five, smoothly sophisticated power, one gorgeous devil in a blue dress.
    Lows:

    Comparatively dull steering, hippity-hop over bumps, that @#&$ shifter, unsatisfying in ways an M5 shouldn't be.
    Verdict:

    Cleanup in aisle five, please.
    2nd Place: E63

    Highs:

    Turns on a pfennig, sounds like Beethoven's "Blitzkrieg in C," rear tires are often smoking, engages all the senses.
    Lows:

    One or two loose parts, tailpipes look like buckteeth, the most expensive.
    Verdict:

    This robot is the biggest thrill ride.
    1st Place: S6

    Highs:

    Abundant details make it feel special, less power but more personality than the M5, smallest sticker price.
    Lows:

    More squishiness in corners, steering is less reactive than the Benz's, a choppier ride on 20s.
    Verdict:

    In a blind taste test, you'd never pick this one as the cheapest. Only the most complete.
    Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,924
    Rep Points
    1,825.9
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Interesting...and that's not even an RS6. Is the M5's new steering really that bad? I think I would take the AMG, that engine is pure beast.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -230.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    Interesting...and that's not even an RS6. Is the M5's new steering really that bad? I think I would take the AMG, that engine is pure beast.
    It's not really bad. It's steering is better than E60's if you ask me. Sure it's heavier and it feels heavier than E60, but the test car we had in Spain was quick and had great feedback.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Reputation: Yes | No
    One of those reviews that include price in the results. If you exclude the negative points for price, the E63 would take 1st, followed by the S6, and the M5 still in third.

    Another review where the E63 gets good remarks for suspension and steering feel.

    The S6 will be a bargain, estimated msrp just over $70k range. The interior in the new S6 is amazing.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No

    Car and Driver compares the 2013 F10 M5, 2013 C7 Audi S6, and 2013 W212 E63 AMG and picks the S6?

    This one has us scratching our heads. How in the world can the Audi S6 be better than the new M5 or E63 AMG? What does that say about the upcoming RS6, this is already game over? Maybe it is. The M5 finished in last place. The M5 historically being a car that was untouchable and simply the best of the best. BMW falling this far is a statement in of itself is a major publication can seriously pick a car as over-matched on paper as the Audi S6 over it.

    Car and Driver said the M5 had dull steering and was unsatisfying. Historically, if one had to pick which car out of these three these comments would be applied to fingers would point to the Audi. Times sure have changed and it is rather sad to see a car like the M5 fall this far. Traditional BMW strengths are the fun factor and steering feel. It is supposed to be the most involving. What has happened?

    The E63 finishes in second place. Praise for its steering, engine sound, and torque are all given. Yes, the Benz has better feedback and communication than the M5. Its motor also does not need to fake its engine sound. The E63 was referred to as robotic but also entertaining which is somewhat of a conflict.

    This brings us to the winner, the Audi S6. On paper it is easily beaten by the E63 and M5. This is the least powerful car in the group by a fairly wide margin with 420 horses compared to the M5's 560 and the E63's 518. Car and Driver said the power difference simply didn't matter and it is somewhat apparent in the 1/4 mile times. The S6 manages a 12.1@115 compared to the M5's 11.9@123 and the E63's 12.0@124. The power disparity shows in the traps but the Audi's Quattro helps it run door to door with the other two in the 1/4 mile. The RS6 is going to mop the floor up with them as we expect it to run mid 11's stock.

    The S6 is also slightly lighter than the M5 despite having Quattro. This would have been unheard of just a generation ago.

    The Audi is said to be the most complete car inside and out. It feels more special inside. It has more personality. This is a major sign that times are changing as Audi and Mercedes are getting better and BMW has fallen off. A shame really, but congratulations to Audi. We eagerly anticipate the RS6.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -230.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    ....
    Last edited by Sorena; 06-08-2012 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -230.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    It's not the first that Car&Driver picks an S6 over E63 and M5. They picked the previous gen S6 over W211 E63 and E60 M5 with M5 finishing in 3rd and E63 in 2nd.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    It's not the first that Car&Driver picks an S6 over E63 and M5. They picked the previous gen S6 over W211 E63 and E60 M5 with M5 finishing in 3rd and E63 in 2nd.
    I think you are right, that was the v10. Try to find a link to the article I am on my phone.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    It's not the first that Car&Driver picks an S6 over E63 and M5. They picked the previous gen S6 over W211 E63 and E60 M5 with M5 finishing in 3rd and E63 in 2nd.
    It's still sad how BMW has fallen with the M5.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    242
    Rep Points
    621.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Anybody notice the acceleration #'s on the Audi?? 0-60 in 4.1 and the quarter mile at 12.1@115. For comparison sake a Corvette Grand Sport does the same at about 4.3 and 12.6@115. I realize the Audi is all wheel drive and puts the power down better, but it also weighs 900 or so pounds more than the Corvette while making less HP and torque. Those are darn impressive times for a large four door sedan with only 420 HP.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    God's Country, USA
    Posts
    238
    Rep Points
    204.0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I'm gonna blame the M5's loss on BMW switching from its magical naturally aspirated engines to these newfangled turbo ones even though I know this isn't the case and the turbo engines are objectively because I loved BMW's old engines and love the drama of natural aspiration.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    God's Country, USA
    Posts
    238
    Rep Points
    204.0
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I have no idea why that posted twice....probably because BMW switched to forced induction.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    761
    Rep Points
    380.2
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Wow, I recall a while I spoke to someone once and I told him I was buying a bimmer and his words and I quote "buy an Audi its way better than BMW", I guess he was right back then.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    le Paris
    Posts
    6,653
    Rep Points
    -230.0
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you are right, that was the v10. Try to find a link to the article I am on my phone.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

    Hmmm, i was wrong. S6 is in 2nd, E63 is in 1st. Still, it's sad to see M5 finishing in 3rd.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fieldysnuts8 Click here to enlarge
    I'm gonna blame the M5's loss on BMW switching from its magical naturally aspirated engines to these newfangled turbo ones even though I know this isn't the case and the turbo engines are objectively because I loved BMW's old engines and love the drama of natural aspiration.
    Well said, very well said.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

    Hmmm, i was wrong. S6 is in 2nd, E63 is in 1st. Still, it's sad to see M5 finishing in 3rd.
    I remember this one. The M5 lost because it was a 6 speed and you couldn't disable the traction control. BMW later addressed this issue.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    326
    Rep Points
    274.9
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I'd have to seriously consider the S7 as an option moving forward if the aftermarket support is on par...hopefully the ECU tunes will be available to open up that engine the way they do on BMW and AMG.
    Current: C63 Coupe: Polar White/Classic Red, P31, H&R, Mode Carbon, RevoZport, Renn Motorsport
    SOLD: B8 S4 Sprint Blue Pearl, DSG, Stasis everything.
    SOLD Eurocharged C63: ARKYM, Forgestar, K&N, Revozport, Custom Rear Lip

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
    I'd have to seriously consider the S7 as an option moving forward if the aftermarket support is on par...hopefully the ECU tunes will be available to open up that engine the way they do on BMW and AMG.
    They are definitely going to be tuned and heavily.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    HG Motorsports
    Posts
    385
    Rep Points
    512.7
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I spent two hours at the Audi dealer today trying out a couple of S cars and I was highly impressed. Audi has stepped their game up in a very big way, I am actually running the numbers on an S4 lease to replace my 135i, that's how much I loved it. These recent reviews aren't joking about Audi's improved steering, it's very detailed while being light and unobtrusive during normal driving and the Recaro-made seats are miles ahead of anything BMW puts in its cars (M cars aside, the M seats are just as good) but the number one thing I liked about the S4 and S5 in particular is how much lower in them you sit compared to a 3 series, I got back into my car (with the seat all the way down) after my test drive and felt like I was sitting on top of a horse.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jerzee
    Posts
    2,306
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I cant see it being that damn bad... I would buy the M5 over the other two, though I am a big Audi fan as well.
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    22
    Rep Points
    18.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Spammer, banned.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,198
    Rep Points
    1,800.2
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blitz535i Click here to enlarge
    Anybody notice the acceleration #'s on the Audi?? 0-60 in 4.1 and the quarter mile at 12.1@115. For comparison sake a Corvette Grand Sport does the same at about 4.3 and 12.6@115. I realize the Audi is all wheel drive and puts the power down better, but it also weighs 900 or so pounds more than the Corvette while making less HP and torque. Those are darn impressive times for a large four door sedan with only 420 HP.
    Quality trans can make the difference. I mean, both these cars are equally modded (tune + exhaust) and look at the difference the DCT makes (fast forward to 1:30)


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    I spent two hours at the Audi dealer today trying out a couple of S cars and I was highly impressed. Audi has stepped their game up in a very big way, I am actually running the numbers on an S4 lease to replace my 135i, that's how much I loved it. These recent reviews aren't joking about Audi's improved steering, it's very detailed while being light and unobtrusive during normal driving and the Recaro-made seats are miles ahead of anything BMW puts in its cars (M cars aside, the M seats are just as good) but the number one thing I liked about the S4 and S5 in particular is how much lower in them you sit compared to a 3 series, I got back into my car (with the seat all the way down) after my test drive and felt like I was sitting on top of a horse.
    Strictly looking at the engine performance, the E92 335 vs the B8 s/c S4, they're equal. But the handling is significantly better on the S4 (unless we're talking 335is), which only makes sense since the S4 used to be the M3s competition. It'll be much more interesting (and a fair comparison) to see how the new F-Gen M Sport Coupe stacks up against the B8 S4/S5.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    HG Motorsports
    Posts
    385
    Rep Points
    512.7
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Strictly looking at the engine performance, the E92 335 vs the B8 s/c S4, they're equal. But the handling is significantly better on the S4 (unless we're talking 335is), which only makes sense since the S4 used to be the M3s competition. It'll be much more interesting (and a fair comparison) to see how the new F-Gen M Sport Coupe stacks up against the B8 S4/S5.
    Agreed, the S4 is positioned between the 335i and M3 and it shows in the handling, BMW has always left a huge gap between its M and non-M cars when it comes to suspension set up and, probably most critically, the suspension bushings and control arms. Also, M cars have a ton of aluminum in their suspension which pays dividends in unsprung weight. Audi has always gone for a three-tiered approach which BMW is trying to emulate with their upcoming M Performance line of cars. The M335i and M435i should be good competition for the S4/S5 especially if BMW does what I think it's about to do with its N55 replacement. I don't have any insider information, but look at their new inline 3 (178hp and 199lb/ft) and I think we can safely expect at least 350hp and 350lb/ft from the new inline 6, if not more.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,697
    Rep Points
    31,533.2
    Mentioned
    2063 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    Agreed, the S4 is positioned between the 335i and M3 and it shows in the handling,
    The S4 is positioned against the 335i. It doesn't change position because the 335i handling is weak compared to the M3. So if BMW improved the 335's handling the S4 market position would change? Doesn't make sense, 335i and S4 are aimed directly and positioned directly at each other. BMW just needs to improve the 335 which is all an M335i really is going to be, the same thing with upgraded suspensions components that should be standard.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,198
    Rep Points
    1,800.2
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    Reputation: Yes | No
    +1, the E46 M3 was directly put against the B6 Audi S4 (a 4.2 V8) + MB C32 AMG (s/c v6). Then the B7 Audi RS4 came out & was pitted against the E9x M3 + C63 AMG. Instead of dropping the S4 from the model lineup, Audi kept the 4.2L v8 from the B6. Anyone with 1/2 a brain will acknowledge that in a straight line, the N54 335 > E46 M3. BUT the minute you introduced turns & asked about handling the tables turned. SO it's really no surprise that a car that was ORIGINALLY designed to compete with the M3 outhandled the 335 Coupe.

    Now that BMW is slapping an M sticker & unfortunately copying Audi's setup (base model --> slightly more powerful, much better handling version --> top tier version), there will be the normal 3-series, the 3-series M & then the M3.

    Honestly, BMW should just stick with the M Package option on non-Ms & then the M.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •