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  1. #51
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    I'll comment but the problem is whatever I saw will be taken as hate speech. Not my intent here. I really do hope to see the N54 platform run high 9s and 140s one of these days, etc. But again congrats to Shiv on the 11.0@130 although I'm less impressed seeing its at 24-25psi. I really expected 135mph+ at those boost levels with a large efficient single with a gutted race car setup. Click here to enlarge
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  2. #52
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    Ok so 1stly, well done to Shiv on having the world record & running faster than anyone else on the planet has.

    2ndly, you can't compare different cars/platform/etc. Why not compare to the same platform? Well no-one has run quicker.

    3rdly, Im sure the slicks lose ET. I don't know how much, but they do.

    Not to mention bouncing the limiter, that loses time & trap. And it's pretty apparent from the outside camera that the car bounced the limiter then "fell". And it recovered from that to run 11 flat. I can bet a whole heap of time & momentum was lost with that error.

    Having experience owning high powered boosted manuals I can tell you it's not that easy. Sure you can get the launch right & rip through the gears reasonably Ok sometimes. But the consistency is the problem. And that 1-2 shift in a powerful car is always a minefield. Either it hooks and then suprises you & goes into the limiter. OR is spins all the way through 1st & then it just doesn't take 2nd gear.

    But an auto leaves the line with momentum & gets all the gears & doesn't lose boost between shifts. 1/4 mile racing is all about the launch & maintaining momentum. & in that regard an auto is king.

    Congrats again Shiv.
    Last edited by M&M; 05-17-2012 at 05:30 PM. Reason: typo

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    2ndly, you can't compare different cars/platform/etc. Why not compare to the same platform? Well no-one has run quicker.
    we are comparing the same car, he is pushing 5 psi of more efficient boost and .10 faster than the rest, with 3 mph faster than the rest. and this is with 644 rwhp, where 490 rwhp car runs 11.10@127, and 540ish rwhp have done 11.20@132, so whats the problem with HIS car?

  4. #54
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    Something else that I've seen over the years is the law of diminishing returns in terms of drag racing, as in life itself. To take a low 13 sec car into the 12's costs maybe $1000 for example with almost zero effort. Normally an ecu tune & it's done. to get it from high 12's into the low 12's you need to double the money & effort spent. Then to get into 11's you need to quadruple the money & effort spent. then to get low 11's you need to move the earth. It actually gets exponential. As you drop time & reach the limit for that platform you need to spend exorbitent amounts on money & effort for very little reward. You end up only dropping a few tenths & yet you made major changes.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    Something else that I've seen over the years is the law of diminishing returns in terms of drag racing, as in life itself. To take a low 13 sec car into the 12's costs maybe $1000 for example with almost zero effort. Normally an ecu tune & it's done. to get it from high 12's into the low 12's you need to double the money & effort spent. Then to get into 11's you need to quadruple the money & effort spent. then to get low 11's you need to move the earth. It actually gets exponential. As you drop time & reach the limit for that platform you need to spend exorbitent amounts on money & effort for very little reward. You end up only dropping a few tenths & yet you made major changes.
    correct, and we are all aware of this. and its not that he is breaking hard barriers, as posted above the ET is miniscule improvements over what was accomplished years? ago and the mph improvement is nill to me. i havent even begun to discuss i ran 126 mph on 17.5 psi pump/meth after a trans rebuild.

    BUT
    If you take that into account, he has 200 RWHP more than me at the time, and is only 4 mph faster.. thats not the law of diminishing returns fighting aginst him, thats something else.. im starting to believe the dyno # are inaccurate

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    correct, and we are all aware of this. and its not that he is breaking hard barriers, as posted above the ET is miniscule improvements over what was accomplished years? ago and the mph improvement is nill to me. i havent even begun to discuss i ran 126 mph on 17.5 psi pump/meth after a trans rebuild.

    BUT
    If you take that into account, he has 200 RWHP more than me at the time, and is only 4 mph faster.. thats not the law of diminishing returns fighting aginst him, thats something else.. im starting to believe the dyno # are inaccurate

    start thinking about the transmission.
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #57
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    Last manual 6speed car we had on our Dyno that made around 640whp ran around 140mph... (C6 Corvette with Centri supercharger and meth)

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Attachment 17334



    Attachment 17335
    I just dont get it 19-16 psi 127mph


    to his 24-23 psi is only 130mph..
    I think you over analyzing things not taking how bad the mis-shift /hiiting the limiter is. In my past experience all momentum is lost and from there on it's like a second gear run having to build up boost etc. I would say good for .3sec and 3mph.
    His definitely trying but also overplaying the MT part of things. At least his posting all his progress to keep us entertained. I think this is going to be a good deal for people who have not got any hardware yet. There is no dispute it makes the power.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I'll comment but the problem is whatever I saw will be taken as hate speech. Not my intent here. I really do hope to see the N54 platform run high 9s and 140s one of these days, etc. But again congrats to Shiv on the 11.0@130 although I'm less impressed seeing its at 24-25psi. I really expected 135mph+ at those boost levels with a large efficient single with a gutted race car setup. Click here to enlarge
    Do you think for some reason the power is only produced in a dyno environment?

  10. #60
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    i like how these are not simply glory runs that we are getting updates on. sure the results are suspicious, but so are exclusive posts of so called "glory runs"...

    i think the "perfect numbers" we are all looking for will have more meaning if and when they come about, due to these previous updates.

    just seems like theres lots of variables at this level, too much even for shiv to account for, let alone the onlookers online.

  11. #61
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    I understand he probably has his pride and wants to hit 10s himself but damn just hire a drag racer who has hit 7/8/9s before and be done with it. No more need for X or Y excuse.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by b00st Click here to enlarge
    As much as I like to see other people making big power with their cars, the fact that BMW's are not made for drag racing is apparent over and over with different models over the years. They need way more power to overcome their short comings against other cars in this department. With that said though, they can be pretty quick street cars without much effort, which is all that myself or most owners are really looking for. I hope the single turbo thing goes somewhere when other companies get into the game and give factual results, as well as running the car in normal street trim on drag radials. It's just funny coming from the Evo world, where a 650whp+ car is knocking on the door of running 9's. It's not all the AWD thing either, since after the initial launch difference(.2-.3 seconds maybe), it doesn't account for the ~2 second difference. Like I said though, more power to everyone pushing the platform, but a low 11 second DD is still an awesome car, and more than enough for most people outside of a drag strip(or empty highway).
    By all of the requirements you just stated, a 450 WHP vehicle does everything as well as a 650 WHP albeit without going out of control in terms of costs or overwhelming the drivetrain.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Explain how you're going to break something when you're putting around in vacuum 99% of the time. It's common sense that stuff is going to break if you continually beat on a car that's making double the factory power output on stock components. I rarely beat on my car actually. I think I spend more time WOT datalogging and dialing stuff in than for my own enjoyment. Click here to enlarge

    Traction wise it's not undrivable by any stretch of the imagination.

    I already budgeted for a trans build anyway so whatever. Click here to enlarge
    This is the problem that I have myst and feel free to disagree, I am not looking for friends but instead people that can think rationally something that I do not see too much of here. Everyone is essentially trying to make a car something that it is not nor was ever designed to do. This is not a GTR, nor a Z06 nor any other car that with a few basic mods takes a dump on everything else. It takes as you can see quite a bit of effort to make this car really fast and at that point it does in fact lose its DD ability... Shiv has not shown anything here without running a ton of meth, running full weight or or running on regular street tires at even one point. Why? Simply because with those particular qualities, the car will not be that great...

    My point is that at the 420-430 WHP level, the power can be made cheaply and easily, past that you're main goal is performance not a mix of luxury and performance which is what a BMW should do. You can argue this is as much as you want but in the end this is fact... don't believe me? Bring your 600 WHP car against a random redneck with a Z06 that has two boltons... Point being, past the 450 WHP for things to make logical sense, you need to move to another platform or you are just creating a massive headache for yourself pointlessly. Shiv is trying to run a high 10 consistently, by all accounts of a drag car that is really a slow time and it takes massive effort where in a more serious car this takes very little. The chassis is simply not designed for this and whether he runs an 11.2, 11.3 or 10.8, what is the difference to someone driving this car on the street with regular tires? ABSOLUTELY NONE and considering the effort required...

  13. #63
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    6.46 60-130 with his weight has to be at least upper 5xx WHP, as far as I'm concerned his dyno numbers aren't in question.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    what is the difference to someone driving this car on the street with regular tires? ABSOLUTELY NONE and considering the effort required...
    I agree with the point you're making, you're being rational but I think all of us here have a little bit of irrationality when it comes to cars. I ask myself why do I keep making my car faster if it grossly exceeds the speed limit in a matter of seconds, but I don't stop modding it :[ I've been on the edge of buying an FT86 for this very reason.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Do you think for some reason the power is only produced in a dyno environment?
    The power curve is very top rpm heavy, it's possible the car is only making 550rw on average going down the track, which would better explain the performance. Someone would have to compute the average power vs. say an RB car and an OEM turbo car to better quantify that angle. I've just been too lazy to compute it.
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  16. #66
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    The MT excuses even bother me now, a guy that runs his tune and meth kit.
    Here's a $#@!ing 8 second pass on a manual car.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The power curve is very top rpm heavy, it's possible the car is only making 550rw on average going down the track, which would better explain the performance. Someone would have to compute the average power vs. say an RB car and an OEM turbo car to better quantify that angle. I've just been too lazy to compute it.

    Using LMs dyno and averaging power from 5000-6800 he's making like 480 on average from peak to redline.

    I would imagine that was a glory run and on the street it's closer to 460 average. Average FBO meth car Average is like 400.

    Shiv is making north of 525 whp at 5000 rpm and 640 whatever at 7200. So you figure the average is around 585. Difference is he's sustaining torque up top where the twins taper off.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    By all of the requirements you just stated, a 450 WHP vehicle does everything as well as a 650 WHP albeit without going out of control in terms of costs or overwhelming the drivetrain.



    This is the problem that I have myst and feel free to disagree, I am not looking for friends but instead people that can think rationally something that I do not see too much of here. Everyone is essentially trying to make a car something that it is not nor was ever designed to do. This is not a GTR, nor a Z06 nor any other car that with a few basic mods takes a dump on everything else. It takes as you can see quite a bit of effort to make this car really fast and at that point it does in fact lose its DD ability... Shiv has not shown anything here without running a ton of meth, running full weight or or running on regular street tires at even one point. Why? Simply because with those particular qualities, the car will not be that great...

    My point is that at the 420-430 WHP level, the power can be made cheaply and easily, past that you're main goal is performance not a mix of luxury and performance which is what a BMW should do. You can argue this is as much as you want but in the end this is fact... don't believe me? Bring your 600 WHP car against a random redneck with a Z06 that has two boltons... Point being, past the 450 WHP for things to make logical sense, you need to move to another platform or you are just creating a massive headache for yourself pointlessly. Shiv is trying to run a high 10 consistently, by all accounts of a drag car that is really a slow time and it takes massive effort where in a more serious car this takes very little. The chassis is simply not designed for this and whether he runs an 11.2, 11.3 or 10.8, what is the difference to someone driving this car on the street with regular tires? ABSOLUTELY NONE and considering the effort required...
    Like I said, I could switch to stock I could run 16 psi (FBO meth power) so its not like getting twins is a guaranteed failure. It's those who push constantly who break stuff.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I think you over analyzing things not taking how bad the mis-shift /hiiting the limiter is. In my past experience all momentum is lost and from there on it's like a second gear run having to build up boost etc. I would say good for .3sec and 3mph.
    His definitely trying but also overplaying the MT part of things. At least his posting all his progress to keep us entertained. I think this is going to be a good deal for people who have not got any hardware yet. There is no dispute it makes the power.
    maybe. i just really think something is a-miss. I really wish he would stop $#@!in around and do a mid 10@135+ so i can stop saying how $#@!ty the results are. even im getting bored of it.

    notice he is VERY nervous in that video. the HUGE deep breathes and controlled exhale's. I do find that funny Click here to enlarge

  20. #70
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    What I look forward to seeing is what the smallest turbo he is offering will be capable of doing on a mix of 93/e85. I bet the spool characteristics will be insane and the punch of tq will feel like a freigh train especially when paired with an AT car.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    What I look forward to seeing is what the smallest turbo he is offering will be capable of doing on a mix of 93/e85. I bet the spool characteristics will be insane and the punch of tq will feel like a freigh train especially when paired with an AT car.
    except that punch of TQ is exactly what will kill an auto quickly.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I agree with Terry's thinking. With the power shifted over to the right the area under the curve vs RB's is not as significant as we might think. IIRC shiv is controlling midrange torque as well so everything seems to line up with the track performance.

    And to put it in perspective there was a joke in the supra world about 500-700 hp cars all running 11's.

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
    except that punch of TQ is exactly what will kill an auto quickly.
    You don't need to tell me to stay away from this platform at anything above 450...lol

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
    except that punch of TQ is exactly what will kill an auto quickly.
    +1 I am doing my best to dial in a JB4 map 6 with as little low/mid range torque as possible. WOT pulls are done from 5000-7000, that's what I'm focused on Click here to enlarge

  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sniz Click here to enlarge
    I honestly think the slicks are hurting his MPH noticeably. He also needs to run at a better track on DR's to see the better traps. I bet this car would trap 132-135mph at MIR on a day like today....low 60's with low humidity at -100ft elevation. My traps for example dropped 3-4mph by going from a 0DA to a 2500DA.
    Sac is the fastest track on the west coast.

    I don't know what slick he is running but his mph isn't being hurt by the slicks like people are thinking.
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