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  1. #26
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    Part III of the fuel system: Get a flash, classic move by a classic doucebag.

    Instead of getting alllllll they way to part 3 and making it sound like he actually knows something, heres a tip to all the kids, get a flash as part 1, and skip vishnu all together.

    PS: I feel sorry for all the idiots who believe it is not nec for stock turbos cars. If you believe that, you guys are simply suckers.

    PSS: As far as jeff and his comments about the high boost maps....well that is partially my fault cause I told him that the very first beta racemap, which is not even released to the public and only a hand full of people got, was an on off switch. Cobb was aware of that, I was aware of that, but it worked for the purpose of 1/4 mile racing. Alot of things have changed since then. My stage 2 aggressive car drove perfect, but I guess 18psi is not considered high boost?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge

    I wish I wasn't banned on e90post. Today I'd have a field day on there
    Do you want me to crosspost over there?
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  3. #28
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    I think I bit half my right arm off today reading all the $#@! i did today from various people over there...un $#@!ing real

    oh wait, this was all a JOKE again right?

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Do you want me to crosspost over there?
    Its useless, waste of time honestly...jason $#@!er will just delete everything, leave shiv around paying his vendor fees and other vendors and just ban the rest to keep it going

    $#@! e90post

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I am disgusted. ...and I am very glad that I did not buy my tune based on impulse back in 2009... I can't believe there are so many gullible souls out there. I really really wish N54s with Procede start blowing up so that people will learn. That's the only way to purge this community from Vishnu Tuning, similar to what happened in Subbie and Evo forums...
    To be perfectly candid, I think it's a bit of a joke that some people look to his positive work with the single (with no competition yet in that arena) and believe that somehow implies his stock turbo tuning is superior.

    But on the other hand when tuning something like that there is no reason not to use every tool available to you. Flash mapping simply does some things easier and better with large turbos. Other things (like raising the rev limiter) are only possible with flash tuning. It's inexpensive and readily available. And the customer is already going to have a lot of down time. So why not? I don't fault him for using those tools and I hope every customer he has enjoys a very nice long engine life. I think where he goes off the rails though is on the hypocrisy of it all. He never says "flash tuning is better in some areas". Instead he continues to do his "Baghdad Bob" routine touting procede superiority on all fronts.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Its useless, waste of time honestly...jason $#@!er will just delete everything, leave shiv around paying his vendor fees and other vendors and just ban the rest to keep it going

    $#@! e90post

    Hahah. I feel the same way, but only when it comes to N54 forum on E90. The suspension, brakes, wheels and DIY forums are useful resources to me. Can't abandon those.
    From all the things I've lost,
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think where he goes off the rails though is on the hypocrisy of it all. He never says "flash tuning is better in some areas". Instead he continues to do his "Baghdad Bob" routine touting procede superiority on all fronts.
    Exactly..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    To be perfectly candid, I think it's a bit of a joke that some people look to his positive work with the single (with no competition yet in that arena) and believe that somehow implies his stock turbo tuning is superior.

    But on the other hand when tuning something like that there is no reason not to use every tool available to you. Flash mapping simply does some things easier and better with large turbos. Other things (like raising the rev limiter) are only possible with flash tuning. It's inexpensive and readily available. And the customer is already going to have a lot of down time. So why not? I don't fault him for using those tools and I hope every customer he has enjoys a very nice long engine life. I think where he goes off the rails though is on the hypocrisy of it all. He never says "flash tuning is better in some areas". Instead he continues to do his "Baghdad Bob" routine touting procede superiority on all fronts.

    Terry,
    I got no problems with Vishnu Tuning at all. Let them tune things the way they want. It just boils my blood when Shivster was spewing lava out of his a$$hole last year when he was claiming that they looked into Flash Tuning before and they claimed it inadequate.

    Look, I can't care less if he completely dumps his hopped up Haltech unit tomorrow and converts to full flash tuning for as long as he openly says so. None of this beating around the bush $#@!! I am tired of watching him perform miracle "spin control" on every single thing he said. Total lack of integrity!

    And that drop-shipping monkey Jeff: quit operating from your mother's basement dude! You are not doing yourself any favor by constantly jumping one vendor ship to another depending on which direction the prevailing winds blow!

    Edit: I guarantee you: Procede v 3.0 is around the corner with additional electronics for aftermarket TMAP sensors.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    To be perfectly candid, I think it's a bit of a joke that some people look to his positive work with the single (with no competition yet in that arena) and believe that somehow implies his stock turbo tuning is superior.

    But on the other hand when tuning something like that there is no reason not to use every tool available to you. Flash mapping simply does some things easier and better with large turbos. Other things (like raising the rev limiter) are only possible with flash tuning. It's inexpensive and readily available. And the customer is already going to have a lot of down time. So why not? I don't fault him for using those tools and I hope every customer he has enjoys a very nice long engine life. I think where he goes off the rails though is on the hypocrisy of it all. He never says "flash tuning is better in some areas". Instead he continues to do his "Baghdad Bob" routine touting procede superiority on all fronts.
    well said terry. +rep, although it looks like you don't really need it Click here to enlarge btw, i commend your attitude in this situation and all situations, you could have easily bashed and trashed like the rest. very professional.
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Terry,
    I got no problems with Vishnu Tuning at all. Let them tune things the way they want. It just boils my blood when Shivster was spewing lava out of his a$$hole last year when he was claiming that they looked into Flash Tuning before and they claimed it inadequate.

    Look, I can't care less if he completely dumps his hopped up Haltech unit tomorrow and converts to full flash tuning for as long as he openly says so. None of this beating around the bush $#@!! I am tired of watching him perform miracle "spin control" on every single thing he said. Total lack of integrity!

    And that drop-shipping monkey Jeff: quit operating from your mother's basement dude! You are not doing yourself any favor by constantly jumping one vendor ship to another depending on which direction the prevailing winds blow!

    Edit: I guarantee you: Procede v 3.0 is around the corner with additional electronics for aftermarket TMAP sensors.
    You know, shiv is right. A flash tune by itself is in adequate when you are looking to do things that the JB and procede can do... Ask terry. There is $#@! physical hardware can do that is valuable to us that a flash can't. So really, it is inadequate as a total tuning solution covering all fronts, and so is a piggy back.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    You know, shiv is right. A flash tune by itself is in adequate when you are looking to do things that the JB and procede can do... Ask terry. There is $#@! physical hardware can do that is valuable to us that a flash can't. So really, it is inadequate as a total tuning solution covering all fronts, and so is a piggy back.
    So what does a piggyback do that a flash can't? Besides the CANbus stuff.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    So what does a piggyback do that a flash can't? Besides the CANbus stuff.

    I'd go the other way around: Lets list what Flash tunes can do that the piggies can't...
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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I'd go the other way around: Lets list what Flash tunes can do that the piggies can't...

    Everything. End of story LOL

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    So what does a piggyback do that a flash can't? Besides the CANbus stuff.
    With a piggyback you have very few limitations. So things like boost control, methanol integration, CAN features, etc, can all be handled in the best possible way. With a flash you're basically limited to table editing so must work within the confines of whatever logic the DME uses. Sometimes you can meet your objectives that way but often you can't. Doing something unique or outside of the box with a flash tune is almost impossible. Yet with a piggyback since you are "outside" of the system it might only be a couple hours of programming work. I've tuned with both extensively and depending on the platform and your objectives sometimes flash tuning allows enough flexibility to do what you want to do and sometimes it doesn't. In the case of the N54 it's going to be a real headache to make the flash tune handle a single turbo. It should be able to handle twin OEM style turbos like RBs but it's never going to be as good as a piggyback can be in terms of overall integration and features. And little integration details can really make all the difference. On the other hand a piggyback is never going to give the same level of fuel and advance control.

  15. #40
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    The important question here is, How do I get tunerpro to work with my dme? I assume you guys are using a different software to get the files, and using tuner pro to decipher them?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    With a flash you're basically limited to table editing so must work within the confines of whatever logic the DME uses.

    Terry,

    Why or why piggy tuners insist on regurgitating this complete and utter non sense! Come on man you can do better than that... Click here to enlarge

    You can COMPLETELY erase the EEPROM and put entirely different logic in there. With proper tools, you can take the MSD80/81 and make it run a vacuum cleaner that sends tweeter updates when the filter bag gets full if you wanted to.

    Don't believe me? I'll give you a real world example of what Flash tuning can accomplish:

    The infamous 1.8T "Neva'h Loose" engine from VW/AUDI. This engine is designed to run on a MAF sensor. For the past 5-6 years, this market was completely taken by all kinds of custom big turbo setups, some of which will embarrass all N54 FBO's out there, including Shivsters big turbo. To accomplish this, the ECU tuners quickly realized that modifying the stock ECU logic can only get them so far by modifying tables and parameters (mickey mouse tuning). They quickly found a way to completely reflash the ECU, eliminating the MAF altogether, rewriting all of the logic and therefore allowing them to do whatever the hell they pleased with it.

    So, I don't want to hear you or anyone else here spill nonsense like this anymore. Either you learn how to do it properly, or shut up. Sorry for the rather harsh tone, but I am getting tired of people talking bull $#@!.
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    This is kinda off topic and may be a stupid question, but anyway here goes. For jb4 users that have the single turbo conversion done, will they have to switch to procede?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    This is kinda off topic and may be a stupid question, but anyway here goes. For jb4 users that have the single turbo conversion done, will they have to switch to procede?
    I think Terry said he was going to make Single turbo board for the JB4

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    This is kinda off topic and may be a stupid question, but anyway here goes. For jb4 users that have the single turbo conversion done, will they have to switch to procede?
    When a good kit comes out and demand is there we'll be tuning them. Tuning hardware is ready to go. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Terry,

    Why or why piggy tuners insist on regurgitating this complete and utter non sense! Come on man you can do better than that... Click here to enlarge

    You can COMPLETELY erase the EEPROM and put entirely different logic in there. With proper tools, you can take the MSD80/81 and make it run a vacuum cleaner that sends tweeter updates when the filter bag gets full if you wanted to.

    Don't believe me? I'll give you a real world example of what Flash tuning can accomplish:

    The infamous 1.8T "Neva'h Loose" engine from VW/AUDI. This engine is designed to run on a MAF sensor. For the past 5-6 years, this market was completely taken by all kinds of custom big turbo setups, some of which will embarrass all N54 FBO's out there, including Shivsters big turbo. To accomplish this, the ECU tuners quickly realized that modifying the stock ECU logic can only get them so far by modifying tables and parameters (mickey mouse tuning). They quickly found a way to completely reflash the ECU, eliminating the MAF altogether, rewriting all of the logic and therefore allowing them to do whatever the hell they pleased with it.

    So, I don't want to hear you or anyone else here spill nonsense like this anymore. Either you learn how to do it properly, or shut up. Sorry for the rather harsh tone, but I am getting tired of people talking bull $#@!.
    You can also retrofit an LS6 motor in to a 135i. But it's not practical. I've done speed density conversions on LS1 motors and it's doable via many table edits (there are no logic changes, you are just using table changes to trick the system) but it would work much better with say a piggyback scenario where you could then add in a wideband o2 sensor with entirely new logic. Flash tunes are great for table edits but generally not practical for logical changes.

    PS. I think it's important to keep in mind this is all a very detail oriented business. It's OK to have big picture concepts but you must go through each little element to achieve certain tuning goals and when you are capable of doing that level of analysis it becomes very clear where the piggybacks shine and where the flash tunes shine.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    You can also retrofit an LS6 motor in to a 135i. But it's not practical. I've done speed density conversions on LS1 motors and it's doable via many table edits (there are no logic changes, you are just using table changes to trick the system) but it would work much better with say a piggyback scenario where you could then add in a wideband o2 sensor with entirely new logic. Flash tunes are great for table edits but generally not practical for logical changes.

    PS. I think it's important to keep in mind this is all a very detail oriented business. It's OK to have big picture concepts but you must go through each little element to achieve certain tuning goals and when you are capable of doing that level of analysis it becomes very clear where the piggybacks shine and where the flash tunes shine.

    I agree. Just don't repeat this over and over because the innocent souls all over the internet will take it as a God given truth and they'll die defending what they think is true fact, which it isn't.

    I'll give you another example of ECU logic alteration, directly related to N54: Cobb discovered a fueling algorithm bug/issue which has been eliminated and coded out. This is yet to make it to consumer maps though. You'll have to agree with me that this goes beyond the simple fiddling with tables, no?
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    Fight the good fight brothers...

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    @Rob@Cobb jumped in with this:

    Shiv,

    It would be fantastic to be left out of guessing game that is what we do. Please, stop guessing. If there is or are questions please simply ask me vs. spreading rumor as to what or how we are working with any system.

    We never have skewed any sensor to make the ECU do what we want. It happens there is a plethora of models in the ECU being used (calculations) and or compared to adjusted and filtered sensor readings. One of those reading was off. I fixed it and it now has the ability to read and be read properly.

    Cheers,
    Rob
    In reference to shiv arguing that Cobb manipulated signals and that was the reason that dataloogging boost at high RPM was having issues.

  24. #49
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    My question there has sparked a few comments.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    My question there has sparked a few comments.
    Definately has Click here to enlarge

    Today has been an interesting day...

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