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Thread: OH MM GEEE :)

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    Question OH MM GEEE :)

    Someone tell me Shiv isn't using a flash base tune and stacking a procede on top of it. Please. Fresh off of e90. WTF? What a little $#@!TT he is, I can't $#@!ing believe it...he's blatantly put down every single thread and comment about this approach only now to be using it for "basic" engine control Click here to enlarge This is lamer than lame, so pathetic if true


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    You can call me a liar on an internet forum. I've read you say worse on other forums. But while you are doing that, I'll keep on developing comprehensive engine control systems for this platform. That being said, I've been developing a flash since last year for the MSD80/81 with the hopes of it being the "basic" engine control option for our single turbo system.


    Click here to enlarge


    So when I say what I say, i'm saying from personal experience based on actual testing. This means countless hours on the dyno, on the road and on the phone talking to many other flash tuning shops overseas. And as the only person who has experience with tuning single turbo N54s through both flash and Procede approaches, I'd like to think to my statements are justified. There are some advantages of MSD 80/81 ROM editing. Although perhaps not as many as you believe. But there are also many disadvantages as people are seeing with respect to just about every aspect of boost control, torque limit/actual deviation, and throttle reaction. And I'm not even talking about the obvious issues involved with rescaling load variables, integrating methanol control/monitoring and isolated boost control. We've done the work and learned the lessons. Others will do the same as their schedules/interests permit. Everyone who works with this DME knows how interdependent the tables/limits are and what compromises must be made to make things "work" on a basic level.


    So let's leave name-calling for kids. Because kids don't do what we are doing. Instead, kids like to call other peoples names on internet forums.


    Best Regards.
    Shiv
    Click here to enlarge

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    NBHNC
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    It's just common sense with big turbo(s) to use a flash for certain things (e.g. lambda and advance mapping) and a piggyback for other things (e.g. boost and meth control). I've been saying it for months. And I've had that flash mapping software since 2009 IIRC. Click here to enlarge

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    Of course it is...but it was frowned upon when i stacked jb4 on cobb and labeled as "wrong" lol he's too funny
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    So is a flash the last piece of his "fuel upgrade"?
    Click here to enlarge
    997.1 tt
    Kline 200cell exhaust
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    Cobb E85 custom stage3 tune by Mitch
    ID1000 injectors
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    He mentioned the flash is being made to be included as a "free" package with the basic single turbo kit...but specifically said hes NOT stacking it for lower power..? Probably for the higher power kits...either way in a tuning standpoint how will/does that work and why will stacking be unnecessary for the "basic package"?

    So what gives...? Any discussion im hear to listen and learn dont have much technical background

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    He is using it for fuel target table remap. He is truly a piece of work if he's doing this for fueling the single turbo, PATHETIC, given the bull$#@! he's spewed there and told everyone about stacking a piggy on a flash...i cant believe this honestly

    Hey Shiv, thanks for copying yet another approach/idea from me as it was so "wrong" lol

    Also what a lie about msd80/81 programming since LAST year..did that start when i posted my 60-130 logs or evwn earlier in May when i told him cobb's afr was rock solid...

    None of this would have ever been a surprise had he been respectful to others and acknowledged the fuel approach shortcoming in the procede

    Where's @JoshBoody?
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 03-29-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    He is using it for fuel target table remap. He is truly a piece of work if he's doing this for fueling the single turbo, PATHETIC, given the bull$#@! he's spewed there and told everyone about stacking a piggy on a flash...i cant believe this honestly

    Hey Shiv, thanks for copying yet another approach/idea from me as it was so "wrong" lol

    Also what a lie about msd80/81 programming since LAST year..did that start when i posted my 60-130 logs or evwn earlier in May when i told him cobb's afr was rock solid...

    None of this would have ever been a surprise had he been respectful to others and acknowledged the fuel approach shortcoming in the procede

    Where's @JoshBoody ?
    Lol, u mad bro?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Lol, u mad bro?
    Well at least it is so funny to see the Shiv do yet another 180deg turn Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    Lol at all the people that ran out and bought procede's bc they thought that was the only tuning solution for the single turbo
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    That initial lean spike with the agressive maps (and not as serious in non-agresive, yet still prevelant) cant be tuned out with the procede. I imagine this became more of an issue with the single, and thereby HAD to modify fuel tables in the DME.

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    Hey, someone call me… hi DZ. Here’s my take… I read the forums and think I’m pretty up to date on all news, gossip, etc. I’ve also run Procede, Cobb, and stacked. Shiv combining flash and piggy was hinted at over a year ago… I knew it was coming anyway by reading the forums. I think this is for the low pressure code primarily and while you’re at it, might as well code in other parameters. He has mentioned no need to stack referencing stock turbos. There’s a control issue also with tuning… why promote something that you don’t have all the info on… he doesn’t have access to other flashers tuning parameters.

    Hey Tzu, I think Shiv truly believes the lean spikes are NOT seen by the engine and Cobb maybe adding excessive fuel on spool… I’m sure he’s tested both. I do think the Cobb logs look better, but Procede’s are pretty good. If you change your driving habits just very slightly the logs will look stellar. Cobb spikes also, but just not as much.

    I do have a slight concern with the stacking “theory” although it’s not seen in the logs… I hope Shiv addresses this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Hey, someone call me… hi DZ. Here’s my take… I read the forums and think I’m pretty up to date on all news, gossip, etc. I’ve also run Procede, Cobb, and stacked. Shiv combining flash and piggy was hinted at over a year ago… I knew it was coming anyway by reading the forums. I think this is for the low pressure code primarily and while you’re at it, might as well code in other parameters. He has mentioned no need to stack referencing stock turbos. There’s a control issue also with tuning… why promote something that you don’t have all the info on… he doesn’t have access to other flashers tuning parameters.

    Hey Tzu, I think Shiv truly believes the lean spikes are NOT seen by the engine and Cobb maybe adding excessive fuel on spool… I’m sure he’s tested both. I do think the Cobb logs look better, but Procede’s are pretty good. If you change your driving habits just very slightly the logs will look stellar. Cobb spikes also, but just not as much.

    I do have a slight concern with the stacking “theory” although it’s not seen in the logs… I hope Shiv addresses this.
    Uh, no one should have to alter any driving habits to accommodate a tunes shortcomings.

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    Dude you said flash doesnt need to be used and piggies have all the control it needs for fueling...dont make me go searching for your posts lol as i said many times its perfectly fine and the only option to use a flash for fueling but both of you were persistant it was just fine controlling it externally!

    Fuel pressure codes Click here to enlarge you know how he's avoiding them? He's flashing new targets to the dme and dme takes care of the rest easily as raising fuel pressure isnt required at all if fueling targets are set in the dme...he's probably disabled tge o2 biasing as well...so he's solving the limitations in a way up until yesterday were heavily discussed as being UNNECESSARY
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    Wow, that's some bull$#@!. What happened to the Proceed being able to control fuel just fine?

    It also makes me wonder if the O2 sensors are actually giving accurate readings pre-turbo, or if he has just recalibrated something in the DME to compensate for the additional backpressue that seems to skew the readings of other wideband setups.

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    My experiences with tuning is only on stock turbos DZ... so anything I have stated is based on this. I now run Procede only as it is the beset setup for me "at this time"... but I will be testing further with ATR. Higher HP, it maybe beneficial to raise the fueling base of course.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Uh, no one should have to alter any driving habits to accommodate a tunes shortcomings.
    This is only for the logs Myst... of course plenty of cars running procede and JB with no issues based on AFRs during spool or post-shift. The WBs are post-turbo of course with a pressure buildup upon closing the WGs... in theory I would expect some lean readings, but I don't have any first hand WB logging experience on this.

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    Bottom line, piggybacks can only add fuel pressure through their means of wideband bias, Cobb has direct access. if you think the procede has some magical powers that the JB4 doesn't though, you're mistaken. Both products are basically the same thing to me except the Procede has a more robust adjustment range for CPS.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv
    You can call me a liar on an internet forum. I've read you say worse on other forums. But while you are doing that, I'll keep on developing comprehensive engine control systems for this platform. That being said, I've been developing a flash since last year for the MSD80/81 with the hopes of it being the "basic" engine control option for our single turbo system.
    The $#@!?

    He just wrote flashes can't do it? WTF? WTTTTTFFFFFF?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The $#@!?

    He just wrote flashes can't do it? WTF? WTTTTTFFFFFF?
    Exactlyyyyy
    Click here to enlarge

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    I am disgusted. ...and I am very glad that I did not buy my tune based on impulse back in 2009... I can't believe there are so many gullible souls out there. I really really wish N54s with Procede start blowing up so that people will learn. That's the only way to purge this community from Vishnu Tuning, similar to what happened in Subbie and Evo forums...
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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    Josh, external widebands say otherwise. Also, it was claimed that the procede has full control over fuel which it clearly doesnt as that lean spike can NOT be tuned out with the procede. Shiv saying "Nothing to worry about" does not make it so. Therefore the unit does not have "complete tuning flexibility" either, more propoganda. I am in the same boat as you, still running a procede for now, but I can see through the bull$#@! too.

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    Now Jeff@TopGear is talking nonsense too on e90post...wtf is up with these people? No facts or personal experience with it at all and they're trying to speak "facts"...so tired of this bull$#@! $#@!!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions Click here to enlarge
    No need for a screen shot VAS, I will even quote myself.

    You would need to define "work".

    I can get to work on a moped, and some people would say that it "works". Is it the best solution? Probably not. Is it the easiest solution? Probably not.

    Are the better solutions? Likely?

    Flash tunes obviously work, thats why we have many people with them. Perhaps, the efforts involved to make them the best are too much, which is why despite Shiv's knowledge of flash tunes he still prefers the piggyback on this platform.

    He's mentioned time and time again that he doesnt like the idea of scaling the map sensor to increase boost. Why? Because it results in a huge drivability loss. That is why I dont run the Cobb on my personal car either. It's like an on off switch with high boost applications.

    I'm sure they can re-code all the tables to eventually make it work, but how long does one have to wait, and could there be an easier way? Perhaps with a piggyback system.

    Please re-read what I wrote and what Shiv wrote, you seem to jump to conclusions too fast without reading and comprehending what is written. I've caught this time and time again from your posts now and in the past which is why you see me come back to correct you. I understand you have some good knowledge in this platform and thats great, but keep in open mind sometimes, you might be surprised what can still be done and what cant be done as easily as you thought.

    You seem to be looking to find some hiccup or flaw in our posts, that really isn't their.
    "Scaling the map sensor increase boost" Whatever you meant by that, Cobb which is a flash IS NOT doing that. Also, there's no HUGE drivability loss. Go drive a current race map on RBs that pushes ~500whp and just as much torque and then talk about "drivability". You don't "need" to run Cobb or a flash for that matter as a piggyback is just fine with stock turbos. If you ever spent the money on THIS car to run RBs or the sorts or an upgraded single you would COULD NOT run a piggyback on its own and take full advantage of the stock fuel system without spraying a $#@! ton of meth. This is a FACT Jeff.

    Also, its not about re-coding the tables. You need to educate yourself a bit if you'll be spreading that misinformation around. There are operating system changes at the core of the MSD80/81 OS that are happening to make things go as well as it does. This is speaking strictly from experience and knowledge on what Cobb is doing that I've gathered in the last year through supporting testing and providing feedback.

    How long does one have to wait you ask? Not long at all. Throw a nitrous shot on the car and see it blow up. What that question is supposed to mean or the value it brings to that conversation I have no idea.

    I wish I wasn't banned on e90post. Today I'd have a field day on there
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I wish I wasn't banned on e90post.
    This is funny.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is funny.
    Ya, hilarious
    Click here to enlarge

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