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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    The reason we kept it secret is because we didn't want any drama over it. I didn't want to deal with HPF ever again, so I just told Jason to fix it. I had no desire to turn my motor issue into a pissing match even though I could have.
    But you want to start drama over this? Huh?

    Hard to take you seriously when you withhold information and pick and choose when to apply it.

    You seem to have taken a negative tone and are taking shots at everyone for some reason. Why are you angry? Is it because your pro-efi setup didn't work out? Because you weren't smarter than HPF like you thought you were? Because you didn't run 10's? Because you can't afford to keep the car? What is it? Why the lashing out at everyone?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    haha they temporarily banned me at E46fanatics. I guess Chris whined again to the moderators to close the thread about Marcus's engine. Then there was so much flack given by forum members to reopen the thread that they opened it back up. I provided FACTS, 100% Facts as they were related to my own build, and I get banned for it, lol..

    Yo Chris.. you really screwed up posting this video. I can NOT wait for Marcus to take all this info to an independent shop and find out what a bull $#@! artist you are.
    Wait, so now you are posting on this forum that you say nobody visits (yet, uh, you are visiting it) after getting yourself banned at your supposedly superior forum? And yet you talk down on this place while you are more than welcome to post what you think? A bit of hypocrisy? Don't burn all your bridges at once.

    I can see why Chris would want to distance himself from you at the moment.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    To much trash and bickering on that forum. I'm a laid back dude forum people bring the worst outta me. I just lurk and pop up here and there. Car is under knife.

    I was going to buy and maybe get MaxPsi tune but my Aem works fine. Don't care much for e85 see no need.
    Well said man, people need to relax.

    Cool of HPF to discuss this and not pretend like it never happened. What berating them constantly will accomplish I have no clue.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not sure why I missed that. I'm a bit disappointed he essentially hid info yet has the audacity to attack others.

    So why is everyone acting like the Pro-EFI is so great when it has such a poor track record? Why the hype?
    bad track record? really? Jason has tuned some of the fastest track cars out there. maybe I missed something where has he had a bad track record that was actually his fault? Dont buy into the bashing that hpf is trying to due, Jason is one of the best tuners out there and is alway willing to share his knowledge. I wish there was more people out there like him.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    yes i may not be a plumber,mechanic,turbo kit designer, engine builder,welder,pro driver,engineer,fabricator,master investor,public relations superman, or nut cheese licker like yourself.
    I gotta admit I laughed pretty hard when reading this, still laughing actually.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    trust me, you arent the only one that is capable of working on a car. in fact, most are probably more capable than you.
    there is a BIG difference between working on a car, turning a wrench, and actually knowing wtf you are doing. Im not saying you dont and not saying chad does, but I actually like when people that dont know what there are doing accept that and have a professional do it, nothing wrong with it at all. makes my job easier and saves you money in the long run.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hobbit382 Click here to enlarge
    bad track record? really? Jason has tuned some of the fastest track cars out there. maybe I missed something where has he had a bad track record that was actually his fault? Dont buy into the bashing that hpf is trying to due, Jason is one of the best tuners out there and is alway willing to share his knowledge. I wish there was more people out there like him.
    I asked with a question, didn't I? Funkboy said 60%, nobody else. If it is that high, I would call that a poor track record.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I can see why Chris would want to distance himself from you at the moment.
    I'm the least of Chris's worries now..

    http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...&postcount=220

  8. #33
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I wouldnt want to be HPF right now. It is very obvious who chris either is or has become in the last year. When someone of Marcus's caliber comes out and says he has had enough with a company you know it is something to take note of. Marcus's has to be one of the most calm and collected persons that has ever posted in the E46fanatics fi section. His long post sharing his decision of who was going to rebuild his vehicle is a real eye opener.

    Whether you agree with hpf or pro efi or even Marcus's decision; I hope we can all agree that we wish Marcus the best with his car. That guy has been through enough in the last year with his car and really deserves a change of luck.

  9. #34
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    You guys need to keep in mind HPF has tons of cars. Saad recently did a record run and it was awesome but I feel it is a bit of an overeaction to a 10 second slip and 1 car.

    Saad has done great things in the Supra world but I mean he does not have anywhere near the number of E46's done that HPF does.

    I'm not going to comment further on Marcus or this until I read over his post some more and do more research on his particular situation.

    However, a person switching companies does not necessarily mean that company did something wrong. I have seen people switch to get backdoor deals and publicly announce a switch on forums that then everyone jumps all over.

    HPF is getting a lot of flack unfortunately and they shouldn't be to this degree considering their contributions and support of the community. I don't see Saad or Pro-EFI doing the same for the BMW community. Let's slow down on throwing stones guys.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I'm the least of Chris's worries now..

    http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...&postcount=220
    The comments on the sleeves, what exactly happened with the sleeves?

    Doesn't Darton do the sleeving work anyway? So how is this HPF's fault or issue?

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MarcusLSB
    Further more, I feel that Chris posted these videos all over the internet to discredit Jason.
    If this is true why would HPF ever even offer Pro-EFI to THEIR customers? HPF generates a lot of revenue for Jason and Pro-EFI.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MarcusLSB
    I should add that Jason called me less than an hour after that video was posted and told me he'd rebuild my engine for me. Not because he felt he was to blame, but simply because he felt I was worth it.
    Worth it specifically means politics here. It is worth the cost for the way it appears to people on forums and the public relations boost to him and hit to HPF. There is a ton of maneuvering going on here from all sides it seems. Not surprising to see people drawing a line and picking their angle.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If this is true why would HPF ever even offer Pro-EFI to THEIR customers? HPF generates a lot of revenue for Jason and Pro-EFI.
    They offered ProEFI to close a quick hole in their market domination. People were headed to ProEFI .. big builds.. such as Chad and Myself... so they offered it as well then suddenly the big builds started heading back to HPF. But things didn't pan out and people like me were stuck in the middle.

    I can tell you I was offered no back door compensation .. it was never about the 'money' for me..

    I think HPF still has great potential.. and they HAD a great thing going. This is not about HPF's quality of builds/etc.. there's no denying they've built some solid cars and noone can come close to as many Turbo BMW's they've put on the road.

    It has everything to do with how they dealt with the ProEFI/HPF issues and how they dealt with my specific situation.

    Its no secret that the squeeky wheel gets the grease but being I'm so calm about things I was just being taken for granted. I'm tired of it.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    They offered ProEFI to close a quick hole in their market domination. People were headed to ProEFI .. big builds.. such as Chad and Myself... so they offered it as well then suddenly the big builds started heading back to HPF. But things didn't pan out and people like me were stuck in the middle.
    Headed to Pro-EFI based on what though? That it was a new alternative?

    Did they have to offer it though? No, but they did. Does it make Jason and Pro-EFI money? Yes it does.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I can tell you I was offered no back door compensation .. it was never about the 'money' for me..

    I think HPF still has great potential.. and they HAD a great thing going. This is not about HPF's quality of builds/etc.. there's no denying they've built some solid cars and noone can come close to as many Turbo BMW's they've put on the road.

    It has everything to do with how they dealt with the ProEFI/HPF issues and how they dealt with my specific situation.

    Its no secret that the squeeky wheel gets the grease but being I'm so calm about things I was just being taken for granted. I'm tired of it.
    Look, I respect you and your opinion.

    What would you like to see and what would you have liked to see happen? How should this all have played out in your opinion?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Headed to Pro-EFI based on what though? That it was a new alternative?

    Did they have to offer it though? No, but they did. Does it make Jason and Pro-EFI money? Yes it does.



    Look, I respect you and your opinion.

    What would you like to see and what would you have liked to see happen? How should this all have played out in your opinion?

    The EMS was an alternative that offered a better way of managing traction control, and a better fuel alternative (e85). If HPF could have worked things out with ProEFI they'd be building some serious monsters. I hold ProEFI a bit at fault for prematurely releasing the product.. putting HPF in a pickle for a few customers that used HPF for the transition. I also believe that HPF and ProEFI had some difficulty determining how to resolve issues as they arose. It was really sad to watch that relationship self destruct as together they could have ruled the roost.

    Regarding how I'd like to have seen it play out...

    1.) Unbiased review of the motor.. including previous issues mentioned.. I'm not sure they ever even mentioned my previous issues to Brian @ M&B.
    2.) Do not tell a customer before you've even seen his engine/car that it 'leaned out' .. you are immediately jumping to conclusions and the customer is going to have a difficult time believe you when others start suggesting it wasn't actually a lean condition.
    3.) Allow the customer to part ways (if they'd like) and come up with a solution that is amicable to them.. sometimes that means losing a customer in the process but the customer is happy..

    I felt that HPF was hell bent on blaming ProEFI. That put me in a position where I'm now stuck with an ECU and tuner that they don't trust/like.

    I've been nothing but a huge supporter of HPF. I felt they ram rodded me and used me in a marketing ploy to discredit ProEFI. I simply felt like I was being bought. It made me feel dirty and I didn't like it. I didn't believe it was the tune.. you have to understand that I knew from the get go that Jason would help me rebuild my motor regardless of who's fault it is. I've brought him customers (just like I've brought HPF customers).. and he just wanted to see me enjoy my car.

    I did not get that same feeling from HPF. I felt like they assumed ProEFI would NOT pay for my motor.. and then instead I would be forced to believe it was the tune and go with them. I honestly did not think it was the tune..

    If they would have admitted maybe it wasn't the tune, and lets take a closer look/etc... then maybe we could have found it was an issue with the rings, the initial AEM tune, the sleeves, etc.. correct the problem.. rebuilt it and gone from there.

    The first call I had with Chris regarding the situation I offered to buy more products from him for another round of upgrades while up there.. and even offered to pay for the Pistons because i wanted to change them if we rebuilt it.

    Chris made the mistake of calling me on Friday around 11:30pm and saying some things that really rubbed me the wrong way. Jason has been NOTHING but helpful during this.. Chris was making me feel uncomfortable is all.

    If you want me to be happy Chris and feel like you truly mean well and want to see me (one of your largest customers) happy I'd like to see you assist me with some parts related to my motor build.. I'm already out $3k because of the sleeves, and a few thousand in transport costs.. a block, some pistons and some rods would make me feel like you give a crap about me and just want to see me happy. I'd continue buying products from you if you did that. But if you just want to wash your hands then I'm fine with that as well.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    The EMS was an alternative that offered a better way of managing traction control, and a better fuel alternative (e85)
    Why do you feel the traction control is better? HPF's traction control demonstration was pretty impressive IMO.

    No E85 with the AEM? That is a very good point then as the Pro-EFI was touted with E85 from the beginning from what I remember.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    It was really sad to watch that relationship self destruct as together they could have ruled the roost.
    Probably a combo but Jason also seemed a little aggressive and abrasive at times don't you think?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    1.) Unbiased review of the motor.. including previous issues mentioned.. I'm not sure they ever even mentioned my previous issues to Brian @ M&B.
    2.) Do not tell a customer before you've even seen his engine/car that it 'leaned out' .. you are immediately jumping to conclusions and the customer is going to have a difficult time believe you when others start suggesting it wasn't actually a lean condition.
    3.) Allow the customer to part ways (if they'd like) and come up with a solution that is amicable to them.. sometimes that means losing a customer in the process but the customer is happy..
    All fair IMO as an enthusiast but number 1 isn't necessarily in HPF's or Pro-EFI's best interest for that matter.

    2 goes without saying, yep.

    3 the solution needs to be amicable to the company as well. What the customer views as amicable perhaps they do not although I know how you in particular mean it is what is fair and reasonable for both parties to part.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I felt that HPF was hell bent on blaming ProEFI. That put me in a position where I'm now stuck with an ECU and tuner that they don't trust/like.
    This may be true. Has it been determined ProEFI is not at fault here though?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Chris made the mistake of calling me on Friday around 11:30pm and saying some things that really rubbed me the wrong way. Jason has been NOTHING but helpful during this.. Chris was making me feel uncomfortable is all.
    This seems to be the major point of discord. What you guys said was between you but if you want to say what upset you to maybe help everyone get on the same page or possibly address miscommunication, by all means.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why do you feel the traction control is better? HPF's traction control demonstration was pretty impressive IMO.

    No E85 with the AEM? That is a very good point then as the Pro-EFI was touted with E85 from the beginning from what I remember.
    Its hard to explain but the way ProEFI manages traction control is based upon wheel speed differences. Which is indisputably superior. It reads the speed of driven and undriven wheels then doesn't allow them to differentiate further then a specified % of slip. HPF's is based on engine rate. So if the car appears to be accelerating faster than actually possible.. it kicks in traction control. It can't read the wheel speed. So one is semi-predictive.. the other is proactive.. make sense? Sorry if I'm not good at explaining it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Probably a combo but Jason also seemed a little aggressive and abrasive at times don't you think?
    Absolutely. I've mentioned it many times.. Jason is very brash and abrasive at times.. Chris can be a bit passive aggressive. It just made for a really unhealthy relationship between the two shops.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge

    All fair IMO as an enthusiast but number 1 isn't necessarily in HPF's or Pro-EFI's best interest for that matter.
    Its a bit like a lottery.. the third party may agree, or disagree but its very hard to make sure that the meeting is completely neutral, but M&B is not neutral.. I'm willing to bet HPF is their biggest client. This has always been about finding out what truly caused the issue for me.. and to me it felt like it was more important for HPF to discredit ProEFI then it was to actually get to the root of the problem.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    2 goes without saying, yep.

    3 the solution needs to be amicable to the company as well. What the customer views as amicable perhaps they do not although I know how you in particular mean it is what is fair and reasonable for both parties to part.
    As a person who deals with the occasional client leaving to go to another firm I always do what ever the client wants during the transition and treat them no differently.. and in the end its always wound up with them still recommending us and a healthy parting of ways. Sometimes you're just not a fit.. and I always take full responsibility for my blunders, clients really appreciate that.. and I've made some blunders believe me.. but its how I deal with them that keeps our clients coming back (we've actually only lost one client and its because they moved to a location I felt was to far from our core service area)..


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This may be true. Has it been determined ProEFI is not at fault here though?
    No, it has not. But the general consensus from a large amount of people , many who have alot of experience.. was that the issue was not tune related.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This seems to be the major point of discord. What you guys said was between you but if you want to say what upset you to maybe help everyone get on the same page or possibly address miscommunication, by all means.
    I mentioned it in my post on E46F.. It just wasn't a enjoyable conversation is all.. I'm pretty difficult to get riled up.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Its hard to explain but the way ProEFI manages traction control is based upon wheel speed differences. Which is indisputably superior. It reads the speed of driven and undriven wheels then doesn't allow them to differentiate further then a specified % of slip. HPF's is based on engine rate. So if the car appears to be accelerating faster than actually possible.. it kicks in traction control. It can't read the wheel speed. So one is semi-predictive.. the other is proactive.. make sense? Sorry if I'm not good at explaining it.
    I think you did a great job, makes complete sense.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely. I've mentioned it many times.. Jason is very brash and abrasive at times.. Chris can be a bit passive aggressive. It just made for a really unhealthy relationship between the two shops.
    Agreed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    No, it has not. But the general consensus from a large amount of people , many who have alot of experience.. was that the issue was not tune related.
    Let's keep an open mind then because it may turn out that HPF is correct in their diagnosis. I feel there is some premature and pent up hate going toward HPF right now. You know what I mean, people isolated from the situation giving their typical "+1" or "-1" crap based on nothing really.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I mentioned it in my post on E46F.. It just wasn't a enjoyable conversation is all.. I'm pretty difficult to get riled up.
    Unfortunate, as I have found Chris easy to speak to and generous with his time. It differs, some people think I'm difficult and harsh to speak to although I do not think that way at all. So, as you said, not everyone is compatible with everyone and there are different perspectives. Looks like it is best for you guys to part ways but also best to determine the issues. Not to point fingers, but to move the S54 platform forward and expand knowledge about it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think you did a great job, makes complete sense.



    Agreed.



    Let's keep an open mind then because it may turn out that HPF is correct in their diagnosis. I feel there is some premature and pent up hate going toward HPF right now. You know what I mean, people isolated from the situation giving their typical "+1" or "-1" crap based on nothing really.



    Unfortunate, as I have found Chris easy to speak to and generous with his time. It differs, some people think I'm difficult and harsh to speak to although I do not think that way at all. So, as you said, not everyone is compatible with everyone and there are different perspectives. Looks like it is best for you guys to part ways but also best to determine the issues. Not to point fingers, but to move the S54 platform forward and expand knowledge about it.
    Overall, HPF has treated me well.. but that has little to do with Chris and has everything to do with the Tech's and Sales People. Those are the guys I deal with 99% of the time. This is my first interaction with Chris really.

    Chris made that video very biased.. and even with that people were picking out other potential problems. Not once was it mentioned that it could have been something other than the tune. If he'd had looked at it more neutral and gone into the situation with the attitude of saying lets get to the bottom of this rather than jumping to the tune conclusion then I think things would have turned out differently. Its not to late for HPF to make me walk away over all happy.. and make others feel more confident that if they were in a pickle like this with HPF that they'd feel confident a solution/resolution could be made.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Unfortunate, as I have found Chris easy to speak to and generous with his time. It differs, some people think I'm difficult and harsh to speak to although I do not think that way at all. So, as you said, not everyone is compatible with everyone and there are different perspectives. Looks like it is best for you guys to part ways but also best to determine the issues. Not to point fingers, but to move the S54 platform forward and expand knowledge about it.
    I should mention that Chris did not swear at me, or do anything of that nature.. it just was a call that obviously both of us were a bit passionate about.. he being convinced its the tune, and me being convinced its the initial tune or build.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Chris made that video very biased..
    It's his job to do what is best for his company. I simply want to point out the jury is still out and HPF is not necessarily wrong in the diagnosis and may be entirely correct. All I wish is for this to be fair as I'm sure you do and for it not to be a bash fest.

    HPF has been on top for so long it generates some resentment and people like to tear things down.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I should mention that Chris did not swear at me, or do anything of that nature.. it just was a call that obviously both of us were a bit passionate about.. he being convinced its the tune, and me being convinced its the initial tune or build.
    Glad you added this additional clarification.

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    Stickey,

    you seem to be biased towards HPF and have a strong feeling to defend them, nothing wrong with that. Its almost like sports, you pick a team and you stick with them even when they are losing. however if you take a step back from that and try to have an unbiased view and just look at the facts it becomes sad. Chris has gone out of his way to discredit Pro EFI and in the process of doing that has lost a very good customer. I just hope Chris can learn from this and change the way he has been "advertising".

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I hold ProEFI a bit at fault for prematurely releasing the product.. putting HPF in a pickle for a few customers that used HPF for the transition.
    The EMS was a proven product. The only thing Jason did was make a wiring harness for it. It is not Jason's fault HPF decided to offer the ProEFI before they even understood how to use it. JP had already left, so you had John, an inexperienced tuner, trying to learn an EMS that has arguably a difficult learning curve because it so much more advanced.

    I believe this is a case of HPF releasing products to the market without doing ANY R&D on them. Just a few products that I'm quite positive received NO R&D.. The sleeved blocks, The cast exhaust manifold and the ProEFI.. These products were placed on the market way to soon to have had any R&D done. I mean Jason didn't even realize at first that HPF removed the o2 sensors from the exhaust. Little things like this are not Jason's fault, they were Chris's fault for not mentioning it. Was Jason expected to completely re-design HPF's turbo kit for them to work with the ProEFI? No.. that's HPF's job. Jason was only responsible for the EMS and the wiring harness.. that's it.

    If there is anything I have learned in my business as a management consultant.. DO NOT release your products into the market until you have adequately tested it under real world conditions.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's his job to do what is best for his company. I simply want to point out the jury is still out and HPF is not necessarily wrong in the diagnosis and may be entirely correct. All I wish is for this to be fair as I'm sure you do and for it not to be a bash fest.

    HPF has been on top for so long it generates some resentment and people like to tear things down.
    If the Jury is the public they yes the jury is out and hpf /M&B diagnosis is wrong.

    as far as hpf generates resentment, I see what your saying but in this case I think the reason people are so upset is because they are smart enough so see whats going on and see what Chris is trying to do.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hobbit382 Click here to enlarge
    you seem to be biased towards HPF and have a strong feeling to defend them, nothing wrong with that.
    I imagine they are one of Sticky's few paying sponsors.

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