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    HPF 137 mph trap - Anomaly? Turned up Boost? Legit?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by highboostingm3 Click here to enlarge
    OK guys let me try to put this to rest.

    I read a lot (or used to because damn I am busy these days) more than I post. I did read that Robert's car originally was pumped up beyond 700whp to break the stock internal s54 record by HPF. Well Robert even admitted they didn't turn the boost all the way back down when in the in-car video he posted of the 137mph run the boost gauge was showing higher than normal Stage 2 boost. I believe all of this discussion and video were deleted because this convo has come up a few times and I have searched for the information to no avail.

    Now, if Robert is now trapping closer to 131 or whatever, my guess is that HPF was worried other Stage 2 , etc. guys wanted that extra power and for liability reasons HPF is smart enough to detune the cars and not deliver a product where reliability is on the edge. So maybe they had his boost turned down. Also, seeing how hard he drives his car I am sure he didn't want to run on the ragged edge either. So yeah, they can make way more power and someone might be lucky enough NOT to blow the engine, but HPF are not in the business of blowing engines so hence the current Stage 2 power.

    When I have time I will try to find the posts but pretty sure they were all deleted.

    I will get my ass handed to me unless a get a retune, use race fuel, regap the plugs and take all the stereo crap out of my car.....and then....then....I will still probably get waxed.

    Would be fun though. Click here to enlarge
    This is the first time I have heard of HPF specifically turning up Roberts car. I don't remember reading anything about it (and I read a lot of posts on BMW forums.. maybe too many) but perhaps it was deleted as you stated.

    I attributed the times to the track as it did not seem to have NHRA calibrated equipment. What really happened is anyones guess but a Stage 2 is NOT a 137 mph car.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is the first time I have heard of HPF specifically turning up Roberts car. I don't remember reading anything about it (and I read a lot of posts on BMW forums.. maybe too many) but perhaps it was deleted as you stated.

    I attributed the times to the track as it did not seem to have NHRA calibrated equipment. What really happened is anyones guess but a Stage 2 is NOT a 137 mph car.
    They did turn up the boost for dyno purposes, these were the times were HPF and I were battling for HP numbers. From what i heard though they took his boost back down to normal numbers after the dyno. However this makes more sense if they left him with 2-3 psi more then others. I just dont understand why he is not telling the whole story if thats the case. We asked him recently about his 137 trap and he didnt say anything as far as his car being out of the norm for a HPF stg 2...

    The track he ran at was NHRA calibrated from what i read (after we asked him that question as well). It can be like Sac Town and ATCO where trap mph is higher then other tracks though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    I assume the both of you are referring to the warranty on the HPF turbo kit because you definitely aren't getting a warranty on the s54 through HPF. Just ask AMGetr from e46fanatics and m3forum about his s54 after that faulty wastegate piping with the flex material causing severe engine damage. Did they warranty his engine even though it was a part from their kit that failed over time and led to catastrophic engine failure? No but they did find him a used block as a starting point and gave him a "discount" on his 2.5 build even though they admitted that if they had only selected the ribbed design dump tube that his problem would not have been catastrophic. I see that as a problem with the original kit in the first place and not to blame on the fact that the customer didn't want to spend $2K plus to have his car shipped to and from HPF to have it "warrantied."

    Oh and if you dump your wg to atm, then you are going to blow your engine in the first if not second high gear pull that you attempt ...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    I did mention the boldfaced part. I am sure that if he had his car inspected by an independent shop, including certain BMW master techs/dealership foremen, that the catastrophic engine failure would have been undeniably traced back to the faulty wategate piping that rendered all the safety features of the AEM to be useless. That is a manufacturer's defect and all related damages are also covered by the manufacturer or installer of the kit in the eyes of the court system. I'm sure HPF knew of the potential problems that could befall their business' reputation so they did the "right thing" pre-emptively.
    Get your info right before you bash people or companies. You dont stop do you?

    Here is the thread HPF posted about Evan's car:
    http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...748&highlight=

    Notice the following:

    All parts listed below were paid for by HPF and shipped to Evan free of charge by HPF

    1/9/2009 - New McMaster Relay - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New methanol bracket wiring harness - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New McMaster Relay - overnight
    2/25/2009 - New FJO methanol nozzle - 2 Day
    2/25/2009 - Methanol Hose fittings and Hoses - 2 Day
    3/23/2009 - New methanol activation switch - Ground
    3/23/2009 - 6 New injectors - 3 Day
    4/9/2009 - New AEM wideband sensor - Ground
    4/9/2009 - New oil feed check valve - Ground
    4/28/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight
    6/23/2009 - New Shurflo methanol pump - Overnight
    6/23/2009 - New Methanol 90 degree elbow, swivel elbow, hose, and quick disconnect fitting - Overnight
    6/26/2009 - Jumper box to DME engine harness - 3 Day
    6/26/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    7/17/2009 - New Methanol hose - 2 Day
    8/7/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight
    8/7/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    9/4/2009 - New Shurflo methanol pump - Overnight
    9/4/2009 - New methanol hose, 90 degree elbow, swivel 90 degree elbow - Overnight
    10/20/2009 - New Shurflo methanol nozzle - 2 Day
    10/20/2009 - New methanol solenoid - 2 Day
    10/20/2009 - New methanol hose, 90 degree elbow, swivel 90 degree elbow - 2 Day
    10/28/2009 - HPF paid shipping to PSI for diagnosis and replacement of methanol parts
    11/3/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight

    "Evan's car is running poorly and it appears that the motor may be blown. HPF agrees to pay for the shipping to and from our facility in Oregon to diagnose the issue. "

    "The HPF warranty does not cover engine damage and there is a boost cut that prevents excessive boost by cutting spark above 16psi. The HPF warranty also does not cover transport costs to and from our location. However, since there was an obvious problem with the blocked dump tube, we decided to replace Evan's engine free of charge and pay for the transport both ways. This included removal of the HPF turbo kit, removal of the engine, tear-down of the engine, purchase of a used engine, machining of the used engine, build up of the new engine, install of the new engine and install of the turbo kit. During this process, Evan decided to upgrade to stage 2.5 internals at his expense (with a discount) and he is now a member of the stage 2.5 club. Congrats Evan."

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    They did turn up the boost for dyno purposes, these were the times were HPF and I were battling for HP numbers. From what i heard though they took his boost back down to normal numbers after the dyno. However this makes more sense if they left him with 2-3 psi more then others. I just dont understand why he is not telling the whole story if thats the case. We asked him recently about his 137 trap and he didnt say anything as far as his car being out of the norm for a HPF stg 2...

    The track he ran at was NHRA calibrated from what i read (after we asked him that question as well). It can be like Sac Town and ATCO where trap mph is higher then other tracks though.
    I may be mistaken but I thought the calibration happened after he ran? Who knows, it may be a Sac situation as you alluded to. ATCO just has great DA and prep, I don't think it reads high but I might be wrong.

    I see, so they bumped up the boost but said they turned it back down. What you say does make sense, if they left it up that would account for the inflated numbers no one else is even approaching.
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    Sorry can't quote posts. Working in the field on iPhone.

    Yup Vik. I saw the video myself. In car and took a double take on boost. Went back and paused it. I so wish that I did screen shots but it never occurred to me video and convo would disappear. I know what I saw.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
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    Bro that post should stay in the other thread, it was a response to boosted325is and his HPF no warranty BS claim.

    Also Cam just posted something there which should be moved here.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Bro that post should stay in the other thread, it was a response to boosted325is and his HPF no warranty BS claim.

    Also Cam just posted something there which should be moved here.
    That other thread is just such a disaster it would be nice to have a fresh discussion on this topic.
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    As I have stated before, my best trap is 136 and I am stage 2.5. I was on street tires so basically had traction issues through third, but still my car is a beast from 3rd on (ran a 5.92 second 60-130 on that run) so I don't know that I would trap that much better on DRs. But yes, I was pretty pissed to "only trap that" in comparison to the stage 2 car.

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    In reference to Rob ("Evil Twin Rob's HPF Stage 2") M3, it made 724whp on the HPF dyno. I actually directed ask Chris B. about that, and he said that it was for dyno purposes only with the final tune being much more conservative when it left HPF to match the standard HPF stage 2 programming. Correct me if anyone knows anything contrary to this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 930chas Click here to enlarge
    As I have stated before, my best trap is 136 and I am stage 2.5. I was on street tires so basically had traction issues through third, but still my car is a beast from 3rd on (ran a 5.92 second 60-130 on that run) so I wouldn't expect to trap much better on DRs...maybe 139 or 140 max? But yes, I was pretty pissed to "only trap that" in comparison to the stage 2 car.
    Did you sell your stage 1 setup yet? IIRC you are located in MD right? I am near Harrisburg, PA. Would you like to run sometime?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    Get your info right before you bash people or companies. You dont stop do you?

    Here is the thread HPF posted about Evan's car:
    http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...748&highlight=

    Notice the following:

    All parts listed below were paid for by HPF and shipped to Evan free of charge by HPF

    1/9/2009 - New McMaster Relay - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New methanol bracket wiring harness - Overnight
    1/28/2009 - New McMaster Relay - overnight
    2/25/2009 - New FJO methanol nozzle - 2 Day
    2/25/2009 - Methanol Hose fittings and Hoses - 2 Day
    3/23/2009 - New methanol activation switch - Ground
    3/23/2009 - 6 New injectors - 3 Day
    4/9/2009 - New AEM wideband sensor - Ground
    4/9/2009 - New oil feed check valve - Ground
    4/28/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight
    6/23/2009 - New Shurflo methanol pump - Overnight
    6/23/2009 - New Methanol 90 degree elbow, swivel elbow, hose, and quick disconnect fitting - Overnight
    6/26/2009 - Jumper box to DME engine harness - 3 Day
    6/26/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    7/17/2009 - New Methanol hose - 2 Day
    8/7/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight
    8/7/2009 - New HPF jumper box - Overnight
    9/4/2009 - New Shurflo methanol pump - Overnight
    9/4/2009 - New methanol hose, 90 degree elbow, swivel 90 degree elbow - Overnight
    10/20/2009 - New Shurflo methanol nozzle - 2 Day
    10/20/2009 - New methanol solenoid - 2 Day
    10/20/2009 - New methanol hose, 90 degree elbow, swivel 90 degree elbow - 2 Day
    10/28/2009 - HPF paid shipping to PSI for diagnosis and replacement of methanol parts
    11/3/2009 - New AEM EMS with reflash - Overnight

    "Evan's car is running poorly and it appears that the motor may be blown. HPF agrees to pay for the shipping to and from our facility in Oregon to diagnose the issue. "

    "The HPF warranty does not cover engine damage and there is a boost cut that prevents excessive boost by cutting spark above 16psi. The HPF warranty also does not cover transport costs to and from our location. However, since there was an obvious problem with the blocked dump tube, we decided to replace Evan's engine free of charge and pay for the transport both ways. This included removal of the HPF turbo kit, removal of the engine, tear-down of the engine, purchase of a used engine, machining of the used engine, build up of the new engine, install of the new engine and install of the turbo kit. During this process, Evan decided to upgrade to stage 2.5 internals at his expense (with a discount) and he is now a member of the stage 2.5 club. Congrats Evan."
    LOL I read that post before I posted. My information is correct. You need reading comprehension.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 930chas Click here to enlarge
    As I have stated before, my best trap is 136 and I am stage 2.5. I was on street tires so basically had traction issues through third, but still my car is a beast from 3rd on (ran a 5.92 second 60-130 on that run) so I don't know that I would trap that much better on DRs. But yes, I was pretty pissed to "only trap that" in comparison to the stage 2 car.
    A 136 with your stg 2.5 car is normal, and with better traction/driving you can possibly get close to a 140mph trap with race/meth. A 5.9 60-130 run is very fast, especially with street tires! I definitely wouldnt use Rob's 137 trap as a reference for stg 2 cars.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    In reference to Rob ("Evil Twin Rob's HPF Stage 2") M3, it made 724whp on the HPF dyno. I actually directed ask Chris B. about that, and he said that it was for dyno purposes only with the final tune being much more conservative when it left HPF to match the standard HPF stage 2 programming. Correct me if anyone knows anything contrary to this.
    This is true. Although it makes alot of sense that hes running more boost then a regular stg 2 because of his 137 trap speed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    LOL I read that post before I posted. My information is correct. You need reading comprehension.
    So what part of "we decided to replace Evan's engine free of charge and pay for the transport both ways" did you not understand?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    In reference to Rob ("Evil Twin Rob's HPF Stage 2") M3, it made 724whp on the HPF dyno. I actually directed ask Chris B. about that, and he said that it was for dyno purposes only with the final tune being much more conservative when it left HPF to match the standard HPF stage 2 programming. Correct me if anyone knows anything contrary to this.
    See, that is exactly why it doesn't make sense.

    Either the boost was left up or the track doesn't read correctly. It may be both, but there is no way a single Stage 2 can have that level of discrepancy when compared to all the others so something is off. I think Rob provides great info so I am not trying to take anything away from him just figure this out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    In reference to Rob ("Evil Twin Rob's HPF Stage 2") M3, it made 724whp on the HPF dyno. I actually directed ask Chris B. about that, and he said that it was for dyno purposes only with the final tune being much more conservative when it left HPF to match the standard HPF stage 2 programming. Correct me if anyone knows anything contrary to this.
    Absolutely correct! Ecept when the in-car camera vid was posted the boost went a few psi higher than normal. All that was deleted.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    See, that is exactly why it doesn't make sense.

    Either the boost was left up or the track doesn't read correctly. It may be both, but there is no way a single Stage 2 can have that level of discrepancy when compared to all the others so something is off. I think Rob provides great info so I am not trying to take anything away from him just figure this out.
    I saw the video and paused on the boost. I know what I saw and most know how big an HPF fan I am. Nothing wrong with what happened so the only reason I can see as to why it was all deleted and Robert isn't mentioning anything is so other Stage 2 or higher guys don't beg for more power from Chris.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
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    | Video of the session when the pic above was taken! In HD! |

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by highboostingm3 Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely correct! Ecept when the in-car camera vid was posted the boost went a few psi higher than normal. All that was deleted.

    I saw the video and paused on the boost. I know what I saw and most know how big an HPF fan I am. Nothing wrong with what happened so the only reason I can see as to why it was all deleted and Robert isn't mentioning anything is so other Stage 2 or higher guys don't beg for more power from Chris.
    So this vid doesn't exist anymore or can we repost it here and put this to rest with proof?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    So what part of "we decided to replace Evan's engine free of charge and pay for the transport both ways" did you not understand?
    Read my posts #543 and #547 on the original thread so that we don't have to go over this again:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...5066#post25066

    A faulty part used in the HPF kit led to his engine failure. HPF would most likely be legally liable to replace everything damaged and all shipping costs. I'm sure Chris thought it would be better PR to go ahead and pre-emptively just do what he did as it is a much wiser way to go then lose in court and get a bad media rap. Wouldn't you think so too? You are a business owner yourself aren't you? HPF knew they were in the wrong and so instead of denying it and losing their internet fans, Chris was clever enough to turn disaster into good PR. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    Read my posts #543 and #547 on the original thread so that we don't have to go over this again:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...5066#post25066

    A faulty part used in the HPF kit led to his engine failure. HPF would most likely be legally liable to replace everything damaged and all shipping costs. I'm sure Chris thought it would be better PR to go ahead and pre-emptively just do what he did as it is a much wiser way to go then lose in court and get a bad media rap. Wouldn't you think so too? You are a business owner yourself aren't you? HPF knew they were in the wrong and so instead of denying it and losing their internet fans, Chris was clever enough to turn disaster into good PR. Click here to enlarge
    I understand your point here, however they have also replaced another motor which was not their fault. I have to dig that one up as well. That was a stg 4 car from what i remember, i believe it was the one that got destroyed in a freak accident when being shipped back to the customer.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by highboostingm3 Click here to enlarge
    Absolutely correct! Ecept when the in-car camera vid was posted the boost went a few psi higher than normal. All that was deleted.

    I saw the video and paused on the boost. I know what I saw and most know how big an HPF fan I am. Nothing wrong with what happened so the only reason I can see as to why it was all deleted and Robert isn't mentioning anything is so other Stage 2 or higher guys don't beg for more power from Chris.
    Was this video at HPF or was it after they gave the car back to him? Or was it his 1/4 mile run video (dont recall if he had one but for some reason im thinking he did).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TaZaM3 Click here to enlarge
    I understand your point here, however they have also replaced another motor which was not their fault. I have to dig that one up as well. That was a stg 4 car from what i know as well.
    Yes, that would be paste35prsnte46 from FL. His headgasket failed due to the old style headstuds they used in his build instead of the new style ARP L19 studs. Again, that was a faulty part that HPF used. Most likely another lost legal case with bad PR. Chris is good at marketing, and he does the right thing, which is why HPF is successful. The product is average at best. It is his customer service and marketing that results in a successful product. Part of that customer service is knowing when to warranty something that could be denied but would eventually end up hurting the very selective market to which the HPF product belongs.

    By the way, aren't you switching from MLS and outdated ARP headstuds to L19 with an OEM hg because your headgasket has been compromised?
    You did say that you can smell coolant after you boost anything over 25psi, and that is why you stopped doing so. Look at what happened to that guys Stage 4. His luck got worse when that exact car was wrecked during delivery. Who ended up getting that car off copart anways?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    Read my posts #543 and #547 on the original thread so that we don't have to go over this again:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...5066#post25066

    A faulty part used in the HPF kit led to his engine failure. HPF would most likely be legally liable to replace everything damaged and all shipping costs. I'm sure Chris thought it would be better PR to go ahead and pre-emptively just do what he did as it is a much wiser way to go then lose in court and get a bad media rap. Wouldn't you think so too? You are a business owner yourself aren't you? HPF knew they were in the wrong and so instead of denying it and losing their internet fans, Chris was clever enough to turn disaster into good PR. Click here to enlarge
    Ok, so you are saying the wastegate piping was responsible?

    Was this part changed on later kits?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    Yes, that would be paste35prsnte46 from FL. His headgasket failed due to the old style headstuds they used in his build instead of the new style ARP L19 studs. Again, that was a faulty part that HPF used. Most likely another lost legal case with bad PR. Chris is good at marketing, and he does the right thing, which is why HPF is successful. The product is average at best. It is his customer service and marketing that results in a successful product. Part of that customer service is knowing when to warranty something that could be denied but would eventually end up hurting the very selective market to which the HPF product belongs.

    By the way, aren't you switching from MLS and outdated ARP headstuds to L19 with an OEM hg because your headgasket has been compromised?
    You did say that you can smell coolant after you boost anything over 25psi, and that is why you stopped doing so. Look at what happened to that guys Stage 4. His luck got worse when that exact car was wrecked during delivery. Who ended up getting that car off copart anways?
    So what is the problem with the Stage 4's exactly? Same as Taza, the headstuds?
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    Im doing some digging on this and found alot! He actually ran a 137, 138 and a 139 trap.

    Here is the 139 slip.

    Click here to enlarge

    And the video from the track! It shows a normal 14psi, sometimes it spikes to 15psi but thats not that big of a deal. What do normal stg 2 HPF cars run? 14psi?


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    ^ Boost looks fine there?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So what is the problem with the Stage 4's exactly? Same as Taza, the headstuds?
    Well HPF has only one stg 4 car right now and we havent seen much from him. I think he ran at the track and got a 140+ trap though. ARP 2000 studs seem like they cant hold down big boost on the S54. Ive recently upgraded to the ARP L19's just like HPF and found better results.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok, so you are saying the wastegate piping was responsible?

    Was this part changed on later kits?
    Seems like the culprit was the wastegate piping being blocked. I think all their kits have better ones now or before his kit was shipped.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted325is Click here to enlarge
    Yes, that would be paste35prsnte46 from FL. His headgasket failed due to the old style headstuds they used in his build instead of the new style ARP L19 studs. Again, that was a faulty part that HPF used. Most likely another lost legal case with bad PR. Chris is good at marketing, and he does the right thing, which is why HPF is successful. The product is average at best. It is his customer service and marketing that results in a successful product. Part of that customer service is knowing when to warranty something that could be denied but would eventually end up hurting the very selective market to which the HPF product belongs.
    So you are saying this company is actually honoring their warranty? Isnt that how its supposed to be? Thats a good company imo...
    That stg 4 car also was driven from FL to HPF in Oregon with a motor with problems. It could have gotten worse on that big drive!

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