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  1. #26
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    Hey sorry been busy.

    You want to increase those pipe diameters as much as possible to reduce pressure drop. 1" is insane, I had no idea they were that small. Get them as big as you can.

    What I was trying to say earlier was the pipe connection right at the turbo outlet needs to be a smooth taper as not to create an abrupt expansion which does cause pressure drop in itself.

    Dz, my suggestion to you. To keep it simple and effective. Get a nice transition peice from your turbo outlet to a bigger pipe of any diameter you choose. Your transition piece should be as long as possible, it doesnt have to be very long, but just do not make it a sharp step change in diameters because the air coming off your compressors is high velocity/ high pressure and you dont want to aggrivate it with a step change right at the scroll outlet.


    Dz, you are right that if you decrease pipe diameter you increase pressure drop.

    I think what vasillalov was saying though, is that if you increase the pipe diameter be sure to do it gradually because gas expansion into a larger pipe with no transition does cause a slight pressure drop.
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  2. #27
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    Dz look at these...

    They are not cheap but this is the ideal connection from your 2" pipe to your 1" turbo outlet.

    http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/in...4c0f7166a828b2
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  3. #28
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    I've been digging online and the best I could find so far is on Amazon a Y pipe for an exhaust with a dual 2.25" going to a single 2.5" ... I'd cut the stock 1" pipes off before the merge and use silicone couplers to attach this Y pipe to it coming down to the fmic...pretty rough but given no fabrication ability its the best I can do...wish someone would take this on who can actually make a proper pipe there...

    If anyone knows where I could find something that would work better do let me know...
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Dz look at these...

    They are not cheap but this is the ideal connection from your 2" pipe to your 1" turbo outlet.

    http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/in...4c0f7166a828b2
    Smallest is 2" (51mm) to a 3" (76mm) reducing cone that I can see on there?
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  5. #30
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    Hang on a minute! Simple laws of thermodynamics say that a compressed gas will experience a drop of pressure and temperature if allowed to enter a bigger container. In other words, if you are moving from a 1 ft long tube with 1 inch diameter to a 1 ft long tube with 2 inch diameter, the pressure will drop! ...and because of that the temperature will drop as well. Also, if the air is moving (as it is in our case) then when the container size increases, the velocity of the air will also drop.

    You don't want to drop the pressure and the air speed before the intercooler at all! The last thing we want is a pressure and speed drop of the air charge.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Burns stainless is probably the best place for this. They will custom make anything you need. I can't post a link but you can Google them.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Hang on a minute! Simple laws of thermodynamics say that a compressed gas will experience a drop of pressure and temperature if allowed to enter a bigger container. In other words, if you are moving from a 1 ft long tube with 1 inch diameter to a 1 ft long tube with 2 inch diameter, the pressure will drop! ...and because of that the temperature will drop as well. Also, if the air is moving (as it is in our case) then when the container size increases, the velocity of the air will also drop.

    You don't want to drop the pressure and the air speed before the intercooler at all! The last thing we want is a pressure and speed drop of the air charge.
    The pressure drop you are referring to is a drop in total pressure but in fact there will be a slight increase in static pressure because you are slowing the flow down. Thermodynamics of gases is a little bit different when they are moving at high speeds.

    The total pressure is both the velocity component of pressure (dynamic pressure) and the static component of pressure (static pressure along a streamline) added together. The total pressure according to bernoullis principal will not change as it flows through the differing diameters. But because of the laws of compressibility the flow will experience a total pressure drop because of the irregular shape of the bigger opening and in turn because you slowed the flow down you will increase the static pressure in the pipe (you can even measure this).

    Going to a big pipe will help him tremendously because it will slow the flow down and greatly reduce frictional pressure drop. Slower flow entering the intercooler is also much better for flow distribution and diffusion into the core.

    I think even with a big step change, he will still pick up power.
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  8. #33
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    DBFIU,

    I see what you mean now! I agree!

    Question though: I do agree that slowing down the air at the intercooler will be good for better cooling of the air. Wouldn't that create a bit of a lag in the throttle response though?
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    DBFIU,

    I see what you mean now! I agree!

    Question though: I do agree that slowing down the air at the intercooler will be good for better cooling of the air. Wouldn't that create a bit of a lag in the throttle response though?

    Yes you are correct but the increase in power will more than make up for the lag trust me.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  10. #35
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    While thinking about making the 1" hot side pipes larger here's something I thought about in terms of induction (front/rear intake) tubing:

    RB compressor inlet is 1.75" ID (44.5mm ID)...the stock induction tubes taper at the entry to the compressor inlet to 1.25" ID (31.75mm)...RBs have the compressor inlet bored out to 1.75" but the induction tubes remained the same ID at the inlet and no one (except I think Oldbooster who never shared anything on them) has done anything in that respect...@DBFIU , given RBs can flow 58lb/min according to @Rob@RBTurbo , so about 29lb/min each, to what extent is the 1.25" at the compressor inlet restrictive?

    Idea I have is if I made the rear induction tube by taking a 1.75" to 2.5" 90deg silicone reducer elbow (siliconeintakes.com) and then attach a 2.5" aluminum pipe that we flattened on the back of the engine so it fits OR got a 2.5" round to oval piece and went with a ready made oval piece on the back preserving the surface area and then as it comes up we add another oval to round 2.5" 90deg elbow towards the filter with the cone on top...same thing in the front...what do you think an improvement such as this would net in terms of gains provided the turbine side will flow the additional exhaust gases?

    Other questions I have are: How hot do the compressor inlets get and would silicone couplers have a chance of melting there?

    Point of all of this is to basically make the setup with RBs as efficient as possible, well, and to kill some time this winter Click here to enlarge i'm not expecting large gains, just some gains through raised efficiency while improving on "small" things that possibly can be improved upon in an economical way
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    @ 29 lbm/min with inlet air temp of 100F and ambient pressure, the velocity approaches 800 ft/s through a 1.25" ID at the compressor inlet. You need to make this bigger, does the inlet really go down to a tube just 1.25" in diameter? If so that is a huge restriction.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    @ 29 lbm/min with inlet air temp of 100F and ambient pressure, the velocity approaches 800 ft/s through a 1.25" ID at the compressor inlet. You need to make this bigger, does the inlet really go down to a tube just 1.25" in diameter? If so that is a huge restriction.
    Click here to enlarge yes it does..here' some pics

    Click here to enlarge

    Look at the inside of the coupler to the compressor inlet...the stock turbo pretty much matches up to the ID of the intake tube but RBs have that bored out to basically the size of the most outer plastic on that plastic tube end that goes onto the compressor inlet...see how that one piece broke? Click here to enlarge ya, thats what happens when that stupid gasket fails, causing that plastic to break and drop into the compressor inlet damaging the wheel...that's also something I'd love to get rid off completely with a nice silicone coupler:

    Click here to enlarge

    @DBFIU, what's your very rough estimate and what would you recommend to do here size wise going up and considering I have to go oval/flattened pipes up behind the engine to the top in the usual DCI location
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #38
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    Try to use whatever diameter the inducer is from your compressor inlet as your pipe size... I cant believe thats what the compressor inlet looks like, so scary.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  14. #39
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    Is it true the stock piping is 1,25" and the RB inlet 1,75"?!
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  15. #40
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    Yes it is true...i have a spare intake tube i'll measure it again but i know 100% RB compressor inlet ID is 44.5mm, 46.5mm OD...i have pics of this with a Vernier posted on e90post amd i think here as well in my rb turbo journal thread
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    You're gonna pick up 10-20 hp by getting rid of the 1.25" garbage inlet pipes.

    Those things make my eyes hurt.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    You're gonna pick up 10-20 hp by getting rid of the 1.25" garbage inlet pipes.

    Those things make my eyes hurt.
    I guess a new inlet pipe should come before a 5k port job on the N54 Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I guess a new inlet pipe should come before a 5k port job on the N54 Click here to enlarge

    Most definitely yes if you have upgraded turbos. For stock turbos, the inlet pipes are a perfect match.
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Most definitely yes if you have upgraded turbos. For stock turbos, the inlet pipes are a perfect match.
    Right, on stock turbos i wouldn't worry about it as the ID of the pipe matches up to the stock turbo inlet pretty well...
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #45
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    keep us posted, im very interested i this still

  21. #46
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    For sure, can't wait to take care of this...maybe a popular vendor will actually build a set of upgraded pipes for the RBs, but we'll see...i'm trying to find a cheap way to do it to see if there's gains first, before making it pretty
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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    For sure, can't wait to take care of this...maybe a popular vendor will actually build a set of upgraded pipes for the RBs, but we'll see...i'm trying to find a cheap way to do it to see if there's gains first, before making it pretty
    Are you still going to route the rear inlet behind the engine pancake-style like the stock inlet? Or have you planned to go some other route?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Are you still going to route the rear inlet behind the engine pancake-style like the stock inlet? Or have you planned to go some other route?
    Ya, the same routing as I don't see any other better alternative...anyone have any better ideas?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Dz you should consider fiberglass or carbon fiber.

    It is relatively easy to work with after some basic reading you can do online.

    Take the stock pipes, since the overall shape is nice and you just want it bigger. Use it for a core and wrap it with carbon fiber to make your new pipe a little bigger in diameter. I dont know how you would remove it, maybe someone with more carbon fiber experience has a better technique but that is how I would do it to sustain the shape and just make it flow more.
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  25. #50
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    thanks dan for all the technical insight. the only change i would make to any of your posts, however, is your estimate of his IAT. for us, sure, in Miami, 100F IAT is normal, even shot for in summer (without meth), but up in Canada, he was probably seeing IAT of ~40F or less by the time his 'season' was up. This summer maybe different but i don't see his going over 70ish no? i'm not sure how much that'll change your calculation of air speed. anyway, i'm pretty sure the piping itself is not the issue, its the coupler. the pancake pipes in front and in back are engineered to flow the same as the 'normal shape' pipes coming from your intake of choice. now the problem lies in the reduction to the coupler (to the comp. inlet). if this can be remedied in a clean and effective fashion, i think you'd have every n54's number, even ones without upgraded turbos.
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