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  1. #301
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge

    You never know, if people find the Rotrex has way too much torque ...
    Lulz...a supercharged s65 with too much torque. Hope nobody seriously complains about that

  2. #302
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    Lulz...a supercharged s65 with too much torque. Hope nobody seriously complains about that
    You've clearly never ridden in a supercharged s65.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    Lulz...a supercharged s65 with too much torque. Hope nobody seriously complains about that
    +1, the fact that an FBO N54 has equal (if not more WTQ) than an supercharged M3, it could def use some more #blowerproblems

    **I'm not suggesting that they are comparable performance cars, simply that they have similar TQ numbers. The S65 was never a torque'y motor by design, so it's not something that's going to be addressed until some1 slaps on a bad ass centri blower, a whipple or some turbos
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  4. #304
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    +1, the fact that an FBO N54 has equal (if not more WTQ) than an supercharged M3, it could def use some more #blowerproblems

    **I'm not suggesting that they are comparable performance cars, simply that they have similar TQ numbers. The S65 was never a torque'y motor by design, so it's not something that's going to be addressed until some1 slaps on a bad ass centri blower, a whipple or some turbos
    You can't talk about the torque between the two without factoring in gearing.

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  5. #305
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    Gearing effects the speed of the vehicle, not tq..... Tq is tq. The e9x m uses gearing to optimize the power band (hp/tq) of the s65, and make the m3 perform the way it does.

    When we increase the hp / tq on our 335's if it was cheap and feasible, you could optimize your gearing to take advantage of the new power, but that's expensive and not totally necessary.
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  6. #306
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Gearing effects the speed of the vehicle, not tq.....
    Sorry man, you got this all wrong. Gearing is all about multiplying torque.

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  7. #307
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    That's what I'm trying to say.... But tq is tq, if the n54 makes 450wtq, and the s65 makes 350wtq (example purposes only) , the n54 has more tq, plain and simple. Now gearing will help the s65 accelerate/perform but you still won't have that kick in the pants feeling.... What am I missing here? I've driven both cars...it's completely obvious they feel different and have different power bands. You have to wind the s65 out and stay in the high rpm band while you don't have to with the n54. You actually need to shift early on the n54. I'm not saying which is faster, but they are different animals that need to be driven differently.
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  8. #308
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sorry man, you got this all wrong. Gearing is all about multiplying torque.
    My point is, if you could start on a clean slate with the same power as a fbo n54 from the factory, you can gear the car to multiply tq the same way the s65 does....this is what we will see in the new m3/m4.

    When we mod our cars and add all this power but don't change the gearing, the car is quick but it isn't as quick as it would be if you could optimize the gearing, different rear axle ratio, gears, etc., but people won't do that, thats for BMW to figure out with the new m
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  9. #309
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    That's what I'm trying to say.... But tq is tq, if the n54 makes 450wtq, and the s65 makes 350wtq (example purposes only) , the n54 has more tq, plain and simple.
    At the crank, so what? What about what gets to the pavement? Do you pay attention to dyno charts or crank figures for example?

    Your torque changes per gear and per rpm. The M3 can be geared shorter because it has much more RPM to play with. It's pretty simple honestly.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Now gearing will help the s65 accelerate/perform but you still won't have that kick in the pants feeling.... What am I missing here? I've driven both cars...it's completely obvious they feel different and have different power bands. You have to wind the s65 out and stay in the high rpm band while you don't have to with the n54. You actually need to shift early on the n54. I'm not saying which is faster, but they are different animals that need to be driven differently.
    Here maybe this will help you:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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  10. #310
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    you can gear the car to multiply tq the same way the s65 does....this is what we will see in the new m3/m4.
    No you can't unless it revs the same.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    No you can't unless it revs the same.
    Sure you can, changes to the final drive ratio and gearing or numbers of gear.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Sure you can, changes to the final drive ratio and gearing or numbers of gear.
    Ok you change the final drive and have more torque for less MPH, and you accomplished what? You get to 20 mph really fast?

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  13. #313
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok you change the final drive and have more torque for less MPH, and you accomplished what? You get to 20 mph really fast?
    No, final drive and gear ratio/number of gear changes.....all make a difference, it's a theoretical/dumb argument anyway lol...

    Think we r saying he same thing in the long run. The s65 powerband is nice after BMW has engineered the gearing to optimize it. In the end, the m3 needs more power, letS hope the next gen accomplishes that
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  14. #314
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Think we r saying he same thing in the long run. The s65 powerband is nice after BMW has engineered the gearing to optimize it. In the end, the m3 needs more power, letS hope the next gen accomplishes that
    I don't think we are saying the same thing. I'm saying the merit of a high revving motor is you can have shorter gearing and still reach the same MPH before shifting while effectively having more torque multiplication in that same span. This is the exact reason the M3 has more torque.

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    Are we comparing two MT cars??? Because if it's an AT vs a DCT it's going to obviously be different & would be more accurate to compare two DCT cars.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    That's what I'm trying to say.... But tq is tq, if the n54 makes 450wtq, and the s65 makes 350wtq (example purposes only) , the n54 has more tq, plain and simple. Now gearing will help the s65 accelerate/perform but you still won't have that kick in the pants feeling.... What am I missing here? I've driven both cars...it's completely obvious they feel different and have different power bands. You have to wind the s65 out and stay in the high rpm band while you don't have to with the n54. You actually need to shift early on the n54. I'm not saying which is faster, but they are different animals that need to be driven differently.
    Right - as stated above, the kick in the pants feeling is coming from the torque applied to the wheels. If you were to start either car from 6th gear from a slow roll, there would be no kick in the pants - even when both engines are making peak torque. That's the point of gearing - to increase the amount of torque to the ground. However, if you only increase the torque to the ground without extending the redline of the car, you haven't really achieved much. Yes, you will accelerate harder, but it will be offset by more gear changes and more drivetrain losses overall. The largest change in performance came when I had a 4.xx (forget the exact ratio - but it was ridiculous) in my e46 M3. The car accelerated EXTREMELY quickly - first gear was almost useless in my opinion. The point is - it's the high redline that makes the S65/S54 shine with torque multiplication. Yes, you can change your rear-end on your x35i, but you don't have the operating range to take advantage of it (in other words, you will be shifting all the time). It's the same reason why F1 cars (don't know why I always find myself going back to this) redline at such an insane speed. Their engines create literally the same amount of torque as your 335i does. It's MUCH faster however - because the redline is an insane 18k, and the torque applied to the ground (due to gearing/mechanical advantage) is very high throughout the very large operating range of the engine. I cannot find the link I wanted to show you, but check this out - it explains torque to the wheels: http://www.v8914.com/Horsepower-v-torque.htm

  17. #317
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    Holy $#@!, not again.

    Evolve, can't wait to see some more data and definitely some real life info

  18. #318
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    The point is - it's the high redline that makes the S65/S54 shine with torque multiplication.
    I don't know how else to explain this.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I'll just leave this here...

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Imran[MENTION=1803
    evolve;354776]I'll just leave this here...

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8067/8...0630dc1b_b.jpg
    Sexy Sexy Sexy! EVOLVE FTW
    Click here to enlarge



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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    WOW! That looks incredible! So clean and aggressive Click here to enlarge

    I really like how the Evolve logo is etched into the manifold.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Imran[MENTION=1803
    evolve;354776]I'll just leave this here...

    http://www.PorscheBoost.com/images/i...30dc1b_b-1.jpg

    or send it my way!

    That is truely amazing!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Imran[MENTION=1803
    evolve;354776]I'll just leave this here...

    http://www.PorscheBoost.com/images/i...30dc1b_b-1.jpg
    This looks good... seriously, seriously, good.

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    Make one for an s85 v10!

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    Any more updates Evolve?
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