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  1. #1
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    cobb stg2+ with meth

    Hello everyone,
    Is it a good idea to install water/meth kit toa 335 e92 withthefollowing mods ?:decated ar design dp+MR 5 intke style+7"ETS IC+stg2+aggressive cobb tune.Is it safe?how many whp do you think it can add?
    Thanks,
    Ali

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    We have a nice non-integrated underhood meth kit that is fully compatible with Cobb. Includes everything you need like a PNP power harness, basic boost switch, bracket, etc. On the normal flash mapping gains are minimal, maybe 10-15hp, but the car will be very resistant to heat soak. For the money I think it's well worth it.

    If you want more than that you can use the JB4 with an integrated WW meth kit and special firmware that progressively controls the meth and boost increase, lets you enable/disable on the fly, gives in dash gauges and features, etc.

    http://www.burgertuning.com/meth.html

  3. #3
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    ^ There you go.

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    try using a small nozzle otherwise your trims will go negative all the way on just stage 2plus. You could as well as suggested by terry pump more boost out of the jb4, i have tested it and works perfectly.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

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    Hi Ali,

    You definitely need it on our crap gas. You only need enough to run the Stage2+agg safely otherwise you can only use Stage2+ sport or even drive in extreme conditions.
    Our Leb 98 octane is exactly as 91 octane in the US even though the calculation says differently but thats how bad it is. use small nozzle as advised by enrita.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    try using a small nozzle otherwise your trims will go negative all the way on just stage 2plus. You could as well as suggested by terry pump more boost out of the jb4, i have tested it and works perfectly.
    Hey Enrita.. I've got a CM10 with a cobb right now (Stg2+). Are you recommending I go with a cm7 or smaller?
    2008 BMW 535iA | Cobb Stg2+ | FBO | Meth

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Cm10 qill work fine. If your trims go negative simply add some water

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Cm10 qill work fine. If your trims go negative simply add some water
    Thanks.. i'm running a 50/50 meth mix already. Will keep an eye out for the trims. Am I correct in just using the AFR to keep an eye or will that not show the issue? Yes, still a bit of a nub when it comes to running meth. I've got it set to kick on around 12 lbs of boost so I don't use it up under DD conditions.
    2008 BMW 535iA | Cobb Stg2+ | FBO | Meth

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Cm10 qill work fine. If your trims go negative simply add some water
    nice tip, might try it since i get full negative trims even on stage 3 Race map. i run about 80/20 mix. Happening on only 1 nozzle 650 ml/min.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

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    Your afr shouldn't change but your trims will slightly. Just monitor it real time and simply glance at it while floored.

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    Keeping some water in the mix is a good idea but I'm not a fan of having too much. Another option is to lower the pump pressure using the set screw.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Keeping some water in the mix is a good idea but I'm not a fan of having too much. Another option is to lower the pump pressure using the set screw.
    I have the 220 psi pump, you know which side ? Counterclockwise to lower and how much lower is 1 turn?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #13
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    How is it controlled? You can also lower duty cycle on the controller. I was talking about those with a basic boost switch and no controller could modify the pump pressure instead of switching nozzle.

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    Terry, reading the Aquatec 5800 pump's spec sheet a couple days ago I realized that while changing pump's pressure does affect flow it doesn't result in more flow with more pressure...when using the screw on top of the pump basically the pump will flow MORE with LESS pressure (screw out) and LESS with MORE pressure (screw in)...i'll flow test this out soon with my new pump to see if its really the case...

    As far as I can see, turning down that screw at the top just increases pressure providing for finer atomization but not more flow

    Flow is regulated via duty cycle and voltage to the pump's terminals

  15. #15
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    Flow is a function of the pressure and orifice of the injector. The tighter setting allows for more potential pressure, assuming the pump can keep up with that pressure given the injector sizing. Lowering it reduces pressure and reduces flow all else being equal. If the pump was unable to keep up pressure in the first place, lowering it would have no net effect, though.

  16. #16
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    Here's the Aquatec DDP 5800 pump specs that I was talking about...see the PSI/flow table on bottom right...am I reading that wrong?


    PSI GPM Amps
    0 1.20 2.5
    20 1.14 3.5
    40 1.06 4.3
    60 0.97 5.2
    80 0.86 6.2
    100 0.80 7.1
    120 0.73 7.8
    140 0.65 8.6
    160 0.58 9.4
    180 0.54 9.5
    200 0.0 10.0

    Specifications

    Motor Type: 12 VDC permanent magnet, totally enclosed, non-ventilated
    Leads: 14 AWG, 12” long
    Duty Cycle: See Heat Rise graph
    Temperature Limits: Motor is equipped with thermal protection. For user safety, optimal performance, and maximum motor life, the motor surface temperature should not exceed 150F (66C).(See Heat Rise graph)
    Pump

    Type: 3 chamber positive displacement diaphragm pump, self priming, capable of being run dry
    Certifications: CE Approval, ISO 9001:2008
    Liquid Temperature: 140F (60C) Max.
    Priming Capabilities: 8 feet (2.4 m)
    Max Pressure: 250 PSI (17.2 bar)
    Inlet/Outlet Ports: 1/4" Push to Connect, 3/8” FNPT
    Weight: 6 lbs (2.7 kg)
    Materials of Construction

    Housings: Polypropylene
    Valves: EPDM
    Diaphragm: Santoprene
    Fasteners: Stainless Steel
    Motor Shell: Coated Steel

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 01-31-2012 at 04:20 PM.

  17. #17
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    Exploded view of the pump for anyone interested:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Here's another link showing pump's performance as pressure is increased/decreased...as far as I can see, you up the pressure you will have less flow:

    http://www.becktech.co.uk/aquatec_5800.php

  19. #19
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    That is just a basic pressure/flow curve. Pumps flow less as pressure increases. So you pick a pressure and flow rate to meet the needs of the system. In this case there is a nozzle attached limiting flow as a function of pressure and nozzle size, so open flow ratings aren't overly relevant. So using those generic figures at 180 psi we won't be flowing more than .5gpm (1800ml/min).

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    That is just a basic pressure/flow curve. Pumps flow less as pressure increases. So you pick a pressure and flow rate to meet the needs of the system. In this case there is a nozzle attached limiting flow as a function of pressure and nozzle size, so open flow ratings aren't overly relevant. So using those generic figures at 180 psi we won't be flowing more than .5gpm (1800ml/min).
    Ok, then I think I'm right. Given your example of 180psi for .5gpm (1800ml/min max), if you turn down that screw to get more pressure out of it, I'm pretty sure you'll end up flowing less at higher pressure leaving everything else the same

  21. #21
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    LOL no, the nozzle limits actual flow. Lower pressure = the pump can support a higher flow level. You'll see after you bench test. Click here to enlarge

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