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  1. #26
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    Thats great info to have. DZ can you run 20 psi boost to see what it does to WGDC?
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  2. #27
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    Here's a couple logs all starting in 2nd gear. Stock turbos, LOW boost, and I don't rev as high as DZ

    wait, i'm going to try and reduce the size... that's huge and annoying.

  3. #28
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    Also, is there any way you can test it in a hotter ambient condition? 33F is basically freezing. Almost any intercooler will perform well. Not trying to give you a hard time DZ, but a lot of us live in the HOT weather and run a lot of boost. Such as myself.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  4. #29
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    Ok this is better for size. NOTE: logs are in F even though it states C. Just some comparisons. LOW boost and i'm NOT revving as high as DZ
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #30
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    I hate procede logs.. lol

    To really test the effectiveness of this IC, it should be stressed. It's barely breaking a sweat in freezing ambient temps at 15 psia. Practically every aftermarket IC will perform similarly under that kind of condition.

    Gotta try and run it in 85F with meth injection at 19 psi.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Thats great info to have. DZ can you run 20 psi boost to see what it does to WGDC?
    I have some of those as well from last night, 21psi down to 17-18psi at redline, no meth, pump 94 octane...its JB4 on top of cobb stg1 aggressive (so a less aggressive timing curve targetting 3-4 deg down low 10.5 deg at redline)...AFR at 12 and didn't really see a point in meth in freezing temps with these IATs and no leaning out (flat 12)...post them up in a bit...i actually had these logs named with a suffix "-scary" lol car was a total beast...virtual dyno reports 600whp on them lol

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Ok this is better for size. NOTE: logs are in F even though it states C. Just some comparisons. LOW boost and i'm NOT revving as high as DZ
    looks like your fmic is working great as well...not revving another 1k rpm up top in 3rd and 4th would change the outcome as that's where a lot of heat comes from...once it warms up here in July I'll post logs in 75-80F starting IAT temps as well...thanks for the data Josh

  8. #33
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    Let me know how it performs in 80F temps @ 20 psi.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  9. #34
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    DBFIU, here's 21 psi down to 18-19psi 3rd through 4th gear pull...

    Click here to enlarge

    Let you know about performance in 80F temps in 6 months lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    DBFIU, here's 21 psi down to 18-19psi 3rd through 4th gear pull...

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...b4nometh-1.jpg

    Let you know about performance in 80F temps in 6 months lol
    Yea thats gonna make a big difference. Thanks for the info, and get back to us in the summertime!
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  11. #36
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    Heres ets data, quater mile pull, temps were around 40 i think. car was heat soaked from staging. Car was also using a meth/water mix.
    Race map targets 20 down to 16ish at 6000k.

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    thanks loosh...

    meth will most certainly play a larger role in IAT supression in higher temps than in freezing temps...in these temps doing a pull on meth even with the previous intercooler which i had didn't cause a noticeable "dip" in IATs, more of just a flat line where temps wouldn't rise but a few degrees near the end of a 3-4 pull...

    in any case, more to come with meth and much hotter weather eventually...if anyone would like to provide logs in "this" type of weather and no meth at similar boost it'd relate a lot better

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    thanks loosh...

    meth will most certainly play a larger role in IAT supression in higher temps than in freezing temps...in these temps doing a pull on meth even with the previous intercooler which i had didn't cause a noticeable "dip" in IATs, more of just a flat line where temps wouldn't rise but a few degrees near the end of a 3-4 pull...

    in any case, more to come with meth and much hotter weather eventually...if anyone would like to provide logs in "this" type of weather and no meth at similar boost it'd relate a lot better
    Dzenno, I am going to run some 2-3-4 logs with the accessport with my Helix FMIC and want to replicate as much as possible to your runs as the ambient temps are in the low 30's and dip into the 20's at night.
    What cobb map did you run?
    How exactly did you do the recovery runs?
    I am still on stock turbos BUT will be putting the helix turbos on the car and run the same alpha map as you(just got off the phone with Rob at Cobb)
    I hope we can all have a professional discussion over this data and on Helix' part feel free to post some of the helix logs you have in similar ambient and boost conditions as I know how well it will perform in trend comparisons and it's always a better comparison on the same car!

    One excellent discussion that can come out of this is heat soak trends on back to back to back runs ie testing the thermal reserve of each intercooler which is a much overlooked aspect of intercooling!
    Last edited by TurboBullett; 01-16-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  14. #39
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    This was a jb4/cobb combo...i can't run an OTS Cobb map as i get throttle closures as their maps are made for stock turbo WGDCs...

    If you'd go out and do some runs i'd suggest stage2+fmic aggressive or at least stage2 aggressive so you can hit similar boost...

    Recovery, you mean for the IAT decay after a run? I'd just shift into 6th gear, hit the brakes and cruise for about 60secs and stop the logging...then i'd review the log after and see how long it took to get down to starting temps which in my case took about 30secs in these temps

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    This was a jb4/cobb combo...i can't run an OTS Cobb map as i get throttle closures as their maps are made for stock turbo WGDCs...

    If you'd go out and do some runs i'd suggest stage2+fmic aggressive or at least stage2 aggressive so you can hit similar boost...

    Recovery, you mean for the IAT decay after a run? I'd just shift into 6th gear, hit the brakes and cruise for about 60secs and stop the logging...then i'd review the log after and see how long it took to get down to starting temps which in my case took about 30secs in these temps
    Do you have any similar boost and ambient temp logs of the helix? I'll run some logs but your turbos and increased airflow won't make it an apples to apples test until I put the helix turbos on. It's always better same car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    Do you have any similar boost and ambient temp logs of the helix? I'll run some logs but your turbos and increased airflow won't make it an apples to apples test until I put the helix turbos on. It's always better same car.
    Unfortunately 99.9% of the runs i have are on meth with RB turbos so that sucks...i may have some with the procede on the car with 15psi from the very few first runs i've done on the car but i'll have to really dig to try finding those...i had RBs installed last year February so it was pretty cold

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU
    Let me know how it performs in 80F temps @ 20 psi.
    I don't think anyone is willing to push their cars with 20 psi of boost in 80F temps without meth, as spraying meth will ruin the test results big time.



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU
    Your intercooler costs 300 dollars for a reason. I am not worried about IAT. You are completely missing the point. I clearly stated that we are not talking about heat transfer effectiveness. I am concerned more with pressure drop.
    You wrote this in the other thread. ^^^

    As I understand you're more concerned about the pressure drop with this intercooler, but didn't Dzenno just told us that the WGDC's are the same as with the Helix unit...?

    I'm not quite sure what you're after?

    I know the end tanks are not the most efficient ones, but the intercooler obviously performs great, the WGDC's are in check and most important; it costs a third... Click here to enlarge
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  18. #43
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    Pressure drop is what worried me from day one. I never had a problem with core effectiveness. I want to see the runs in 80F because that is where you will see the turbos suffer the greatest impacts from pressure drop.



    I also said it is nearly impossible to recreate a test on an intercooler when its installed. Dzenno is the closest thing we have to consistent tests, and even then it is hard to do.

    The best way to measure the pressure drop is with a pressure sensor at the inlet and the outlet for both intercoolers. I doubt he will go through those lengths to measure pressure drop.

    As ambient temperature goes up, air density goes down which reduces turbocharger efficiency and increases turbine speed. This is where most of us sit at, hot days with lots of boost and meth. A very cold day is going to help everything, IATs, pressure drop, lower turbine speeds etc...
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I don't think anyone is willing to push their cars with 20 psi of boost in 80F temps without meth, as spraying meth will ruin the test results big time.




    You wrote this in the other thread. ^^^

    As I understand you're more concerned about the pressure drop with this intercooler, but didn't Dzenno just told us that the WGDC's are the same as with the Helix unit...?

    I'm not quite sure what you're after?

    I know the end tanks are not the most efficient ones, but the intercooler obviously performs great, the WGDC's are in check and most important; it costs a third... Click here to enlarge

    I never disagreed with the IC being a good unit. The question was asked to me, what are good end tank designs, so I answered. The endtanks on the IC are not optimal, that is all I am saying. I think for the price it does just fine, but an optimized end tank design has a different shape, that's all.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I never disagreed with the IC being a good unit. The question was asked to me, what are good end tank designs, so I answered. The endtanks on the IC are not optimal, that is all I am saying. I think for the price it does just fine, but an optimized end tank design has a different shape, that's all.
    Here's the thing though... why is it that my buddy can make 800+ whp on this design with no problems and minimal lag if the endtanks suck so much?
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    Here's the thing though... why is it that my buddy can make 800+ whp on this design with no problems and minimal lag if the endtanks suck so much?
    Because he could probably make 850 with better endtanks.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Because he could probably make 850 with better endtanks.
    That's a 6.25% increase in WHP...

    Wow that's great news!
    That means I'd get another 26 whp if I decide to get rid of my crappy intercooler!
    That's almost 30 hp on the crank, not bad! Click here to enlarge

    I just love theoretical science!
    Keyboard dynos FTW! Click here to enlarge
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    DBFIU, here's 21 psi down to 18-19psi 3rd through 4th gear pull...

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...b4nometh-1.jpg

    Let you know about performance in 80F temps in 6 months lol
    what kind of additive and FP were you running here?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    That's a 6.25% increase in WHP...

    Wow that's great news!
    That means I'd get another 26 whp if I decide to get rid of my crappy intercooler!
    That's almost 30 hp on the crank, not bad! Click here to enlarge

    I just love theoretical science!
    Keyboard dynos FTW! Click here to enlarge
    Well no. He said 800+ whp, so to me that sounds like 820-825. So at 820 whp another 25 hp is another 3% which is a little on the high side. But it's a rough estimate.

    You aren't exempt from physics. And no it isn't fake and made up. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, keep doing what you do.

    If you kept your core and smoothed out the endtanks you would pick up power. Do you disagree with that statement?
    Last edited by DBFIU; 01-17-2012 at 10:48 AM.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Well no. He said 800+ whp, so to me that sounds like 820-825. So at 800 whp another 25 hp is another 3% which is a little on the high side. But it's a rough estimate.

    You aren't exempt from physics. And no it isn't fake and made up. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, keep doing what you do.

    If you kept your core and smoothed out the endtanks you would pick up power. Do you disagree with that statement?
    Please just stop with your endless physical theories. They're starting to get a little bit too much.

    The IC works pretty darn good and is also very cheap.
    ...and fact is that dzenno's car are freaking fast.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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