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Thread: M3 Call-Out!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    AMGs auto trans is one of the fastest shifting boxes ive ever seen. Ever driven an SL65? The thing will bark tires between gears like a '69 Nova...
    Fast but not fast as a DCT.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    I think in a 1/4 mile there is not much difference if the driver of the 6MT doesn't make a mistake. but human error is always there. but on a head to head comp. on the road I'd say the DCT has a much better advantage

    on the other hand the fun factor to me hands down 6MT
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Ok, so im not trying to be a dick in calling anyone out. But I have searched and searched and cant find a stock DCT Vs stock 6MT comparison.

    I found a modded e90 vs e92 and it shows exactly what I thought... The trans is not making a critical factor in acceleration.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mowyr...0igg_xSicpQDED

    SO what I want to prove/show is stock for stock (for now) that there is negligable advantage for DCT vs 6MT S65/M3's

    and then ill find a fully modded (N/A) 6MT to run vs me, and then s/c'd.

    But for now. If you or anyone you know has a stock (or rear exhaust only) 6MT car preferably E92, Let him/me know id like to do a few easy/quick comparisons..
    I think a lot of people think that a DCT has the properties of an automatic (torque converter) - it does not. There is power loss on a DCT transmission as it uses energy to pump and because of frictional losses (with a wet clutch DCT) caused by oil shearing.

    This has been professionally tested by Motor Trend - 2 stock M3s, one with a DCT the other with a standard manual... The DCT car is a tenth of a second slower than the manual car up to 30/40 miles per hour. However, the time difference is pretty large when running both cars to 100 MPH - 4 tenths of a second gained from DCT. That is unquestionably faster - 4 tenths to 100 MPH (consistently) should be evidence of this.

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e/viewall.html

    Cheers and Happy New Year

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I think a lot of people think that a DCT has the properties of an automatic (torque converter) - it does not. There is power loss on a DCT transmission as it uses energy to pump and because of frictional losses (with a wet clutch DCT) caused by oil shearing.

    This has been professionally tested by Motor Trend - 2 stock M3s, one with a DCT the other with a standard manual... The DCT car is a tenth of a second slower than the manual car up to 30/40 miles per hour. However, the time difference is pretty large when running both cars to 100 MPH - 4 tenths of a second gained from DCT. That is unquestionably faster - 4 tenths to 100 MPH (consistently) should be evidence of this.

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e/viewall.html

    Cheers and Happy New Year
    thanks for some info, i never saw that.

    I do question this though:

    "The standing quarter mile comes up in 12.6 sec at 113.2 mph versus 12.7 sec at 111.3 mph."

    those 4/10's dont show up in the actual 1/4, only 1/10, so the manual has to be making it up somewhere. which still has me questioning the 60-130 variance

    now the 2 mph difference is worthy of note as well. id like to see 1/8 mile mph as well along with 60' as those are critical to tell where one is faster than the other..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thanks for some info, i never saw that.

    I do question this though:

    "The standing quarter mile comes up in 12.6 sec at 113.2 mph versus 12.7 sec at 111.3 mph."

    those 4/10's dont show up in the actual 1/4, only 1/10, so the manual has to be making it up somewhere. which still has me questioning the 60-130 variance

    now the 2 mph difference is worthy of note as well. id like to see 1/8 mile mph as well along with 60' as those are critical to tell where one is faster than the other..
    Yea...I'm not sure their test numbers make sense....they basically say that the Manual picked up 3/10 in the last ~12 mph of the run....not sure how you could pull that off out side of the DCT being even faster in the 1/4 than shown here and lifting at the end of this run.
    Never thought I would see the day...
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    6MT vs DCT, the DCT will win every time...whether both are stock, bolt-on, or supercharged.

    I've raced a buddies stock 6MT when I was stock with a Meisterschaft GT2 axle-back and beat him by 2-3 cars by 140. I then raced the same car when full bolt on and managed to get about 10+ cars by 160, heres the video:

    I then raced a 6-speed ESS VT1-535 and was roughly dead even with him (and this is when I had no tune):


    On top of it, we ran an ESS VT2-650 hybrid 6 speed against an ESS VT2-600 DCT and the DCT won by a buslength by 140.

    The difference between the performance of the two transmissions is DRASTIC to say the least - makes me feel bad for 6-speed S65 owners because its almost like owning a totally different car.

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    Who is "we"?

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    I don't understand? WTF!! how can there be such a dramatic difference. Almost makes me not want to get the MT even if its funner, if it gets raped this badly by the DCT.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    6MT vs DCT, the DCT will win every time...whether both are stock, bolt-on, or supercharged.

    I've raced a buddies stock 6MT when I was stock with a Meisterschaft GT2 axle-back and beat him by 2-3 cars by 140. I then raced the same car when full bolt on and managed to get about 10+ cars by 160, heres the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGAvg...p;feature=plcp

    I then raced a 6-speed ESS VT1-535 and was roughly dead even with him (and this is when I had no tune):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJXye...p;feature=plcp

    On top of it, we ran an ESS VT2-650 hybrid 6 speed against an ESS VT2-600 DCT and the DCT won by a buslength by 140.

    The difference between the performance of the two transmissions is DRASTIC to say the least - makes me feel bad for 6-speed S65 owners because its almost like owning a totally different car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Who is "we"?
    couple of guys from ACM in jersey. Figure I was trapping 116 at best on that setup against the 535, so its probably trapping a little higher. So you have a sub-120mph trapping 6 speed 535, while a DCT 535 trapped 125 at ATCO.....DCT really is worth 5+mph in my eyes when supercharged (the difference is even greater when blown)...same goes for zim who trapped 126 best in 6MT while Drew was hitting 132mph vbox runs on the 625 kit....DCT tranny is a killer

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Yea...I'm not sure their test numbers make sense....they basically say that the Manual picked up 3/10 in the last ~12 mph of the run....not sure how you could pull that off out side of the DCT being even faster in the 1/4 than shown here and lifting at the end of this run.
    Manual can stay in third almost all the way through the back half past the 1/8. The DCT needs another shift and won't accelerate in 4th as fast as the manual accelerates in 3rd.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Manual can stay in third almost all the way through the back half past the 1/8. The DCT needs another shift and won't accelerate in 4th as fast as the manual accelerates in 3rd.
    They both have advantages in different scenarios. In the 1/4 mile MT advantage, in a regular roll to 150mph, I'm sure DCT will win everytime.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I've run a stock E92 6 speed when I was stock and it wasn't much of a comparison...

    FWIW I ran ERM324's highly modded M3 DCT from 60-130 and he put about 2 cars on me. He dyno'd at around 400WHP. My eurocharged tune plus CD supposedly puts me in that 400WHP range as well. I could see and feel his car pulled on me btwn shifts - the DCT is that much quicker than our AMG 7 speeds. I think the result had more to do with gearing than power output. With that said, our 1/4 mile times are pretty similar but from a roll that DCT covers a lot of ground...though it won't be that way for much longer but I'll leave it to him to explain that one lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    couple of guys from ACM in jersey. Figure I was trapping 116 at best on that setup against the 535, so its probably trapping a little higher. So you have a sub-120mph trapping 6 speed 535, while a DCT 535 trapped 125 at ATCO.....DCT really is worth 5+mph in my eyes when supercharged (the difference is even greater when blown)...same goes for zim who trapped 126 best in 6MT while Drew was hitting 132mph vbox runs on the 625 kit....DCT tranny is a killer

    5+mph? better than the 10+ claim it was months ago Click here to enlarge

    not possible my man
    AA E90 53x RWHP/DCT 125/6mph traps- fullweight
    VF E92 57x RWHP/DCT 129mph withweight reduction
    ESS E92 57x RWHP/6MT 126 MPH-fullweight
    ESS E92 520-30RWHP/DCT 125MPH- fullweight

    is DCT and advantage, sure, but not the mysterious huge advaantage people claim.

    When am i getting that stuff off ya? Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by LostMarine; 01-03-2012 at 05:48 PM.

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    Steve, is it just me or did you get a big boy car with a real 6 speed transmission?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Yea...I'm not sure their test numbers make sense....they basically say that the Manual picked up 3/10 in the last ~12 mph of the run....not sure how you could pull that off out side of the DCT being even faster in the 1/4 than shown here and lifting at the end of this run.
    It's two separate runs/tests (1/4 and 0-100) - read their testing methods for 1/4 mile - it's not the same as 0-100...

    I think all they are saying here is using the best 0-100 they got with both cars, the DCT (using best #s) was .4 seconds ahead. The best 1/4 mile they got with both cars - same thing, but less difference.

    I could be missing something - not sure.

    Cheers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
    I've run a stock E92 6 speed when I was stock and it wasn't much of a comparison...

    FWIW I ran ERM324's highly modded M3 DCT from 60-130 and he put about 2 cars on me. He dyno'd at around 400WHP. My eurocharged tune plus CD supposedly puts me in that 400WHP range as well. I could see and feel his car pulled on me btwn shifts - the DCT is that much quicker than our AMG 7 speeds. I think the result had more to do with gearing than power output. With that said, our 1/4 mile times are pretty similar but from a roll that DCT covers a lot of ground...though it won't be that way for much longer but I'll leave it to him to explain that one lol
    Wow that much of a difference? I wonder how I would fair against erm? I will text him. Last time he wasnt available.
    C63 Tuned Only 60-130 in 8.71

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    They both have advantages in different scenarios. In the 1/4 mile MT advantage, in a regular roll to 150mph, I'm sure DCT will win everytime.
    The lower the speed of the roll the more advantage for the DCT. It all comes in shift speed... more shifts, more gain.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
    I've run a stock E92 6 speed when I was stock and it wasn't much of a comparison...

    FWIW I ran ERM324's highly modded M3 DCT from 60-130 and he put about 2 cars on me. He dyno'd at around 400WHP. My eurocharged tune plus CD supposedly puts me in that 400WHP range as well. I could see and feel his car pulled on me btwn shifts - the DCT is that much quicker than our AMG 7 speeds. I think the result had more to do with gearing than power output. With that said, our 1/4 mile times are pretty similar but from a roll that DCT covers a lot of ground...though it won't be that way for much longer but I'll leave it to him to explain that one lol
    good times man!

    Brought the car in yesterday to go under the knife and get that ticking sound fixed and have the blower/gauges installed, shortly after a very unfortunate incident took place last night and we lost a dear friend and co-owner of AutoCoture Motoring named CJ (he owned an ess vt2-650 e90 m3). Extremely sad news for all his friends and family - he was a sweetheart, and extremely knowledgeable when it came to the S65 M3. Rest in peace CJ, you will be missed by many.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    5+mph? better than the 10+ claim it was months ago Click here to enlarge

    not possible my man
    AA E90 53x RWHP/DCT 125/6mph traps- fullweight
    VF E92 57x RWHP/DCT 129mph withweight reduction
    ESS E92 57x RWHP/6MT 126 MPH-fullweight
    ESS E92 520-30RWHP/DCT 125MPH- fullweight

    is DCT and advantage, sure, but not the mysterious huge advaantage people claim.

    When am i getting that stuff off ya? Click here to enlarge
    true.....my car is at AutoCoture right now. After the incident that happened we have to figure out when it'll be back running again (heartbreaking situation) - the blower was supposed to go on next week and car be on the road by mid january, but due to recent events it may be some more time..I will let you know as soon as I get it done brotha, and I'll drop off the pulleys/stage II intake

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    true.....my car is at AutoCoture right now. After the incident that happened we have to figure out when it'll be back running again (heartbreaking situation) - the blower was supposed to go on next week and car be on the road by mid january, but due to recent events it may be some more time..I will let you know as soon as I get it done brotha, and I'll drop off the pulleys/stage II intake
    Sad, sad situation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    It's two separate runs/tests (1/4 and 0-100) - read their testing methods for 1/4 mile - it's not the same as 0-100...

    I think all they are saying here is using the best 0-100 they got with both cars, the DCT (using best #s) was .4 seconds ahead. The best 1/4 mile they got with both cars - same thing, but less difference.

    I could be missing something - not sure.

    Cheers.
    I need to read before I post... I think Sticky has it right:

    "Manual can stay in third almost all the way through the back half past the 1/8. The DCT needs another shift and won't accelerate in 4th as fast as the manual accelerates in 3rd."

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    good times man!

    Brought the car in yesterday to go under the knife and get that ticking sound fixed and have the blower/gauges installed, shortly after a very unfortunate incident took place last night and we lost a dear friend and co-owner of AutoCoture Motoring named CJ (he owned an ess vt2-650 e90 m3). Extremely sad news for all his friends and family - he was a sweetheart, and extremely knowledgeable when it came to the S65 M3. Rest in peace CJ, you will be missed by many.
    Sorry to hear this...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Steve, is it just me or did you get a big boy car with a real 6 speed transmission?
    lol, no, big boy car with a baby 7 spd trans Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    true.....my car is at AutoCoture right now. After the incident that happened we have to figure out when it'll be back running again (heartbreaking situation) - the blower was supposed to go on next week and car be on the road by mid january, but due to recent events it may be some more time..I will let you know as soon as I get it done brotha, and I'll drop off the pulleys/stage II intake
    i heard about that, truely a sad day for us all, and more so for his family.
    I tried to contact Sal, if not much I can do, but if he needs anything, im here

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i heard about that, truely a sad day for us all, and more so for his family.
    I tried to contact Sal, if not much I can do, but if he needs anything, im here
    Just offer him support, all you can do.

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