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  1. #1
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    Cool Got something pretty special in the works

    2 EGT Probes going onto turbo manifolds, in this case its RB turbo manifolds, along with a wideband on the bank2 exhaust pipe, and then all hooked up to AEM X-WIFI, datalogged to my laptop and I can see the gauges over wifi on my iphone...

    Why is this special you may ask?

    Well, let's just say that after 4 years on this platform not one person (end user or tuner) has taken the time to gather this critical data...EGT, next to AFR, timing and boost, is one of the most critical if not the most critical parameter of how aggressive your engine has been tuned and basically tells you if melting something is bound to happen...all we've relied upon so far is timing retard events, in most cases just cylinder 1, to see how aggressive we "think" we may be running and made assumptions about it which after 4 years on this platform have sort of become the de facto standard of measuring so called tune's "aggressiveness"...I have no idea why no one has ever done this and I'm sure if they have they would've mentioned it at least once in 4 years Click here to enlarge

    A few things I'll be testing to obtain EGTs in both banks and AFR:

    Stock tune testing:
    - stock tune and pump 94 octane

    JB4 tune testing:
    - JB4 map3 pump 94 gas
    - JB4 map3 pump 94 gas + 50/50 meth mix (40 meth add)
    - JB4 map3 pump 94 gas + 100% meth (60 meth add)

    COBB tune testing:
    - Cobb Stage 1 Aggressive pump 94 gas
    - Cobb Stage 1 Aggressive pump 94 gas + 50/50 meth mix
    - Cobb Stage 1 Aggressive pump 94 gas + 100% meth
    - Cobb Stage 3 Race Aggressive pump 94 gas + 50/50 meth mix
    - Cobb Stage 3 Race Aggressive pump 94 gas + 100% meth

    And also possibly some Cobb/JB4 combo testing..

    To your neighbourhood N54 n00b all this data won't mean $#@!...to someone that's anal as myself about every single detail and finds this a hobby this data will be priceless in many ways...

    Some pics of the probes and manifolds to follow over the next few days...can't wait to get started on this Click here to enlarge

    Any predictions? What do you guys think richer AFRs + lower timing + more boost will compare as opposed to lower boost+higher timing+leaner AFR? What about introduction of meth? Any EGT predictions? Click here to enlarge Any suggestions on a different test procedure or a better way to test?

    One thing I'm truly looking forward to understanding through this data is the difference in various setups when it comes to EGTs with various tune approaches as well as just seeing what the stock car is doing EGT wise...

    Any Procede user willing to participate pm me..
    Click here to enlarge

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    good stuff Click here to enlarge

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    Off topic, but why are you switching to a Big Tom intercooler? I would have thought that with your anal retentive personality when it comes to details, you'd stay away from it after what just got posted in the advanced tech forum
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    Off topic, but why are you switching to a Big Tom intercooler? I would have thought that with your anal retentive personality when it comes to details, you'd stay away from it after what just got posted in the advanced tech forum
    What real data do you have to contribute that shows it performs worse? That its chinese made and that e90post bans people for just mentioning universal intercoolers as cheaper alternatives? And whoever said I'm switching to anything?

    Did you know that they banned Big Tom from e90post for saying good things on this intercooler? That $#@!ing forum is so pathetic i'm seriously not going back there again ever...moderators are a bunch of $#@!ing retards
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    What real data do you have to contribute that shows it performs worse? That its chinese made and that e90post bans people for just mentioning universal intercoolers as cheaper alternatives? And whoever said I'm switching to anything?

    Did you know that they banned Big Tom from e90post for saying good things on this intercooler? That $#@!ing forum is so pathetic i'm seriously not going back there again ever...moderators are a bunch of $#@!ing retards
    hey just saw this "advanced tech" section... good timing cause i just purchased a used Helix and have AMS now. Should get some good comparison data. I have always been amazed viewing Helix IAT logs from people compare to mine... but my air is much dryer and you never know the corresponding WGDC. anyway, I should be posting over there.

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    This thread is supposed to be about EGTs and not fmic data and constant daily e90post bull$#@!...I'm hoping we have a good crowd in here so we can discuss things without all the vendor related overhead which always got in the way on that board...

    In terms of FMIC data, I have literally tons with my Helix in all kinds of weather and boost...i'm doing this mostly for my own sake as I like playing around with data like that in my spare time and learning/experiencing stuff by doing things on my own as best i can without being bothered by vendor marketing bs...

    i appreciate you Josh, and everyone else, that do the same...i'll be honest i'm definitely rooting for the underdogs always but i'll let the data speak for itself...spending money on a hobby of mine such as this is something i really don't mind and the cool part is I don't give a $#@! what vendors sales i'll hurt...if the thing works and its 3x cheaper I'll make sure its known...if its $#@!, it'll be known its SHIIT

    lol at the "advanced" tech section
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    Interesting test, looking forward to the outcome.

    Is it possible for you to formulate the exact goal(s) with the EGT tests? I'm not trying to be funny, what I mean is that the goal will determine how test needs be conducted and parameters to monitor. The answer may be - to find the maximum usable power within a reasonably good safety margin or something like that. This would then raise a lot of new questions like how do we establish when there is a sufficient safety margin by looking at EGT and other parameters and what do we mean by this without running a couple of engines until they fail. Other goals could e.g. be just to collect a lot of data to learn as much as possible.

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    Good points and definitely doesn't sound funny Click here to enlarge

    My main goal is just to gather up data first and see how the engine responds with all the different configurations I outlined. At this point I really have no idea what to expect in any of those setups. Given we have no knowledge about the EGTs on the N54 (other than the apparently modeled curves EGT curves provided in the DME) and also given that we have no data on the materials used on the engine's internals/materials we'll still be left guessing as to what is safe or not. To start the point is just to gather data and see if there are any surprises and we take it from there...how does that sound?

    My question to you guys is what do you expect the EGTs to be with all these tunes and what do you think a setup like the N54 should be seeing. Anyone have any clever hypothesis?
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    It sounds good to me Dzenno and I'm sure a lot will be learned from the tests. It may be beneficial to monitor the wheel power with the virtual dyno for the different scenarios. Not that there is any doubt more boost and more timing advance will make more power but it may give input and trigger ideas for new conclusions that can lead to improved and yet reliable performances or crush myths we may have.

    No idea what EGT values to expect for different settings, you are the first N54 guy doing this that I know of.

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    virtual dynos will be easy to do if required...key thing is to just organize (name) the CSV files properly...all jb4 logged

    planning to also see effects of catless vs. catted exhaust on EGTs, etc. should be fun...hoping to also be able to see what the difference in pre and post turbine EGTs ends up looking like...many have alluded as much as 200F difference...with a tiny turbine it may/may not be considerably more...this'd basically let others interested somewhat estimate their EGT numbers based on just an EGT probe post-turbine, if they wish to do so, a lot closer...

    i recall reading about Mr.5 having an EGT probe on his catless downpipes and his readings were pretty much flagged as useless as they weren't "ideal" in the "advanced" tech section on e90post lol glad to have that data as a reference
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-21-2011 at 08:50 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    What real data do you have to contribute that shows it performs worse? That its chinese made and that e90post bans people for just mentioning universal intercoolers as cheaper alternatives? And whoever said I'm switching to anything?

    Did you know that they banned Big Tom from e90post for saying good things on this intercooler? That $#@!ing forum is so pathetic i'm seriously not going back there again ever...moderators are a bunch of $#@!ing retards
    He's not banned as far as I can see...

    I never said I have any proof that this intercooler is crap. In fact, I have one arriving at my house this week to compare to my ETS. Not sure why you got so aggressive, but I'll stop derailing your thread...
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #13
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    He was past two days..maybe they lifted it

    So you got 4 intercoolers to test?
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    Dps location
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    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  15. #15
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    What tune/boost/octane/meth?

    Cool thanks enrita
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    To start some tech discussion, generally i would think:
    More timing advance less egt
    Egt increase with boost
    Egt decrease relative to iats, but
    Decreased iat will also increase backpressure raising egts
    Richer mixture lower egts, but depends on timing.
    Water/meth mixes would be very interesting. More water should decrease egt

    With a turbo engine egt is difficult because you are combining backpressure heat with egt... These are 2 separate heating components: temps from combustion and temps from compressed exhaust gas.

    Anyway just thinking out loud

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    Looking FW to seeing some data Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    What tune/boost/octane/meth?

    Cool thanks enrita
    If i remember correctly cobb stage 1 plus jb4 add55 with meth 80-20% 3-4-5 gear pull , outside temp 2-5 C . I will do more reliable testing later on with pc datalogging . Thats just a screen taken after i switched off meth (meth controller and x-wifi are juiced together).
    I was pretty much seeing the same egts after pulls with procede , same psi and meth but with much warmer outside temps.
    Always about 100F difference between bank 1/2. You should see probably 150-200 F higher in the mani.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    If i remember correctly cobb stage 1 plus jb4 add55 with meth 80-20% 3-4-5 gear pull , outside temp 2-5 C . I will do more reliable testing later on with pc datalogging . Thats just a screen taken after i switched off meth (meth controller and x-wifi are juiced together).
    I was pretty much seeing the same egts after pulls with procede , same psi and meth but with much warmer outside temps.
    Always about 100F difference between bank 1/2. You should see probably 150-200 F higher in the mani.
    Is there something you dont have lol.. man you are a car freak with respect.

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    I respect all those who do a lot of testing on their own expense and shareeeeeeeeee with the community and help out, without asking for anything in return.

    My guess on EGTs would be, anything tuned without meth would yield a small difference maybe less than 200, this is if no detonation of sort is going on.
    I think with meth = more advance, more octane, more cooling would have lower EGTs for sure and is above 200 in difference compared to non meth.

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    Good stuff Dzenno. Its about time some hard data was collected on EGTs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Good stuff Dzenno. Its about time some hard data was collected on EGTs.
    ^ this. Although it's a little sad that it's got to come from a member who isn't allowed on the largest forum for our cars. Well, well, hopefully people will still see it. If you get some good info on this, then I'd gladly send you an unlocked Rev 2.5 Procede to compare as well down the line. Nothing wrong with getting info from all tuning camps. Too bad it VIN locks grrrr
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Who cares? We know where to find him, and the useful discussion is here. I like to watch my dramas during lunch "Days of our Lives (wasted on e90post)." Actually one of the things I like most about this board is the technical section, with numbers Click here to enlarge. Anyway OT.

  24. #24
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    ^ this. Although it's a little sad that it's got to come from a member who isn't allowed on the largest forum for our cars. Well, well, hopefully people will still see it. If you get some good info on this, then I'd gladly send you an unlocked Rev 2.5 Procede to compare as well down the line. Nothing wrong with getting info from all tuning camps. Too bad it VIN locks grrrr
    honestly, i wish e90post nothing but an unrecoverable server crash Click here to enlarge i'm not going back there unless i need to try sell a part off my car in the regional section...that forum has become totally garbage and just filled with people ready to be taken advantage of by the moneyhungry vendors/tuners/moderators...$#@! that

    and lets please not mention bimmerpost at least in this thread anymore as everyone can concentrate on a lot more interesting stuff...tons of shiite that no one on the interwebz knows about the N54 5.5 years after production is something worth concentrating on, not bull$#@! around bimmerpost
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-22-2011 at 02:07 PM.
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  25. #25
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    the problem with E90post (now) is that they're trying to make money off it and will steer it anyway that achieves that. It is disappointing because it garners the most exposure on the net for our cars.
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