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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I'm running dual nozzles (CM10 + CM7) and my timing is perfect, even during cold ambient temps (35 fahrenheit).
    The annoying thing is that I'm suffering from high RPM misfires right now, but that is probably caused by the colder ambient temps combined with old/worn spark plugs.
    I'll change them in a couple of days, and hopefully the misfires will disappear... Click here to enlarge

    I really hope that I'm not infected by the PROcede-misfire-disease. Click here to enlarge
    The newer maps (including the aggressive maps) is impossible to use without getting misfires...... Click here to enlarge
    The tune related Procede misfire issues were CPS related on automatics, which has from what I've seen been fixed, if you're misfiring on your manual, you have other issues to worry about.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    pretty clear AFR is not affected at all by the fuel trims.... great info.

    Is there any impact in how the engine runs when fuel trims are negative?
    car runs slower when trims start running negative. An ECU reset (learned adaptations) actually helped my trap speeds in the 1/8 mile!

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    The tune related Procede misfire issues were CPS related on automatics, which has from what I've seen been fixed, if you're misfiring on your manual, you have other issues to worry about.
    I'm not so sure about that.
    I've never ever had any misfires with JB3 + FBO + Meth...

    ...but I really, really hope that a set of new spark plugs will fix this, because PROcede's boost controll is a real pleasure.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  4. #29
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    Big Tom. Shiv did mention the car needs to be in tip top shape for anyone that wants to run the aggressive maps. I would think if spark plug need to be changed it would need to be addressed. Keep us posted

  5. #30
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    Interesting information. Thanks. I'm still on a single DO7 nozzle. Planning on going CM10 soon.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I'm not so sure about that.
    I've never ever had any misfires with JB3 + FBO + Meth...

    ...but I really, really hope that a set of new spark plugs will fix this, because PROcede's boost controll is a real pleasure.
    If the plugs have some miles on them I'm fairly certain it will fix the problem actually. But I've learned to never be surprised with the procede lol.

  7. #32
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    Tom, part of the point here also is that many of us are likely just running too much meth regardless of how the car runs timing wise. Meth has a lower energy value than gasoline and by running more meth than required for IAT cooling you may be sacrificing some power given all else (boost/timing/AFR) equal. I think starting with a single CM5 nozzle and logging and seeing what happens to timing/IAT and then slowly upping the size can/will produce the best results power wise. Former_boosted_is has done quite a bit of this testing back in the day and I think anyone willing to maximize the benefit of meth/water should follow that approach...for me I do it on the street with the vbox for him it was dyno pulls..

    In the end what I think we should all run is the smallest nozzle with the highest amount of water up to 50/50 mix that will maximize IAT suppression and eliminate knock retard. I say water because some water is much better than pure meth when it comes to fighting pre-ignition.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 11-15-2011 at 10:44 AM.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    fuel injectors coded incorrectly? How is that possible when I never had them replaced? There are no hardware issues. The car runs strong, feel nothing out of the ordinary and trims look perfect when I reset the ECU. If you want the logs I graphed out so you can see VANOs, just let me know. I'll email them to you. There really isn't much to see.
    You are right... most likely not hardware. So reset and trims look good; have you logged LTFT. ST is instantaneous adjustment and LT actually changes OL reference IDC I would guess. Of course through adaptation trims should move closer to 0 and not more negative. BMW seems to have really dropped the ball on this software.

    PM don't work so my email: joshboody@gmail.com send me a couple logs if possible and anything part or off throttle would be helpful.
    Last edited by JoshBoody; 11-15-2011 at 10:51 AM.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Tom, part of the point here also is that many of us are likely just running too much meth regardless of how the car runs. Meth has a lower energy value than gasoline and by running more meth than required for IAT cooling you may be sacrificing some power. I think starting with a single CM5 nozzle and logging and seeing what happens to timing/IAT and then slowly upping the size can/will produce the best results power wise. Former_boosted_is has done quite a bit of this testing back in the day and I think anyone willing to maximize the benefit of meth/water should follow that approach...for me I do it on the street with the vbox for him it was dyno pulls..
    If I remember correctly Hotrod's car performed a little better with CM10+CM7 compared with a single CM7.
    Traps gained from 121ish to 123ish.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    If I remember correctly Hotrod's car performed a little better with CM10+CM7 compared with a single CM7.
    Traps gained from 121ish to 123ish.
    What's funny is that his fastest vbox time on nitrous was on a Cm5 nozzle Click here to enlarge don't take my nozzle sizes or setup as a rule, I'm just saying if you have time to play around and do some acceleration runs try it..my fastest 60-130 so far was on a cm10/cm7 combo which after my runs being posted hotrod started running as he was on a single cm10 before that Click here to enlarge

    I haven't compared 60-130 with smaller/bigger nozzles than the cm10/cm7 combo on my car but I do plan on doing it...IMO unless you're fuel limited in some way a CM10 nozzle should be max size anyone should run...TT vettes tuned by pro tuners at a local shop here, making 1000-1200whp, none run larger than a single M10...

  11. #36
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    One other thing I recall hotrod losing trap speed after adding the second nozzle and then eventually gaining it back...he has a valve that he opens manually for nitrous I think so on just pump gas I think, could be wrong though, he just runs a single cm10

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    One other thing I recall hotrod losing trap speed after adding the second nozzle and then eventually gaining it back...he has a valve that he opens manually for nitrous I think so on just pump gas I think, could be wrong though, he just runs a single cm10
    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=24
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  13. #38
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    yep, saw that back then...

  14. #39
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    And of course he didn't reset adaptations after each change so it's all speculation IMO.

    The timing doesn't really impact performance as Terry said, but it's ugly to look at. Click here to enlarge

    Like I said I'd rather have full advance all the time and see the ecu pull timing. At least then I know I have an octane issue and not a dme issue. The timing flatline happens on race gas + meth as well.

    Hopefully cobb fully reverse engineers the ecu logic so we can have a definitive logic behind the timing issues.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    And of course he didn't reset adaptations after each change so it's all speculation IMO.

    The timing doesn't really impact performance as Terry said, but it's ugly to look at. Click here to enlarge

    Like I said I'd rather have full advance all the time and see the ecu pull timing. At least then I know I have an octane issue and not a dme issue. The timing flatline happens on race gas + meth as well.

    Hopefully cobb fully reverse engineers the ecu logic so we can have a definitive logic behind the timing issues.
    I really don't know if resetting the ECU is required if you're doing a bunch of back to back pulls to let the DME adapt...DME is very quick to adapt unless there is a hardware issue somewhere

  16. #41
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    IMHO if a tune can keep afr in check and exactly as tuned (like cobb) we dont need to flow $#@! loads of meth. Someone with different nozzle sizes should test the same tune / map with different configuration of meth and see how logs looks like , especially fuel trims. The norm with water/meth injection is to target i think 0.5 points leaner with injection enabled.
    I really think we got used to inject $#@! loads of meth because piggy have issues delivering the necessary fuel.
    I want to use meth as octane/knock suppressor enhancement and not actual fuel since it takes time for the dme to add it back.
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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    IMHO if a tune can keep afr in check and exactly as tuned (like cobb) we dont need to flow $#@! loads of meth. Someone with different nozzle sizes should test the same tune / map with different configuration of meth and see how logs looks like , especially fuel trims. The norm with water/meth injection is to target i think 0.5 points leaner with injection enabled.
    I really think we got used to inject $#@! loads of meth because piggy have issues delivering the necessary fuel.
    I want to use meth as octane/knock suppressor enhancement and not actual fuel since it takes time for the dme to add it back.
    +100 that's the idea

  18. #43
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    Assuming I don't see massive dropouts running a smaller nozzle, I'll be taking it back to the airstrip this weekend for some testing on cm7. I ideally would want to run dual m5s but a single cm7 is still significantly less flow than cm/m10 nozzles.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    I really hope that I'm not infected by the PROcede-misfire-disease.
    The newer maps (including the aggressive maps) is impossible to use without getting misfires......
    oh noes...

    and i think meth in cold weather DEFINATLY has to do with misfires. that seems to be when mine become prevelent. i can go all year without any, and then temps drop into 50's (F) and they come around

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    oh noes...

    and i think meth in cold weather DEFINATLY has to do with misfires. that seems to be when mine become prevelent. i can go all year without any, and then temps drop into 50's (F) and they come around
    again, i think even in summer time we're just throwing way too much meth at the car...a single CM10 "should" be just fine in most cases, provided there is no tuning limitations fuel wise...IMHO even though timing and other things may look perfectly fine on dual nozzles it doesn't mean its the right thing to do but at this point all this remains to be tested/tried...I know on hot summer days on a single CM7 on stock turbos I had timing dropouts BUT that also could've been flow/leak related...

    i've ordered some new hardware (fittings/tubing) from devilsown to try eliminate some of the fitting leaks currently on the car..

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    yes, but your on 94 octane, most of us are 93, so ive found the DO14 is perfect for a setup like ours. but i agree a Cm10 is plenty for the rest

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    yes, but your on 94 octane, most of us are 93, so ive found the DO14 is perfect for a setup like ours. but i agree a Cm10 is plenty for the rest
    Did you really see issues on a single CM10? I think a 14 "may" be overkill, largest I ran was a DO12

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    again, i think even in summer time we're just throwing way too much meth at the car...a single CM10 "should" be just fine in most cases, provided there is no tuning limitations fuel wise...IMHO even though timing and other things may look perfectly fine on dual nozzles it doesn't mean its the right thing to do but at this point all this remains to be tested/tried...I know on hot summer days on a single CM7 on stock turbos I had timing dropouts BUT that also could've been flow/leak related...

    i've ordered some new hardware (fittings/tubing) from devilsown to try eliminate some of the fitting leaks currently on the car..
    You're wasting your money do fittings are absolute $#@!. Surprisingly the coolingmist ones seem better.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    You're wasting your money do fittings are absolute $#@!. Surprisingly the coolingmist ones seem better.
    What tubing are you using? Is it coolingmist provided one?

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Did you really see issues on a single CM10? I think a 14 "may" be overkill, largest I ran was a DO12
    Do you actually have problems with timing post shift when you lift off throttle? Or only on wotbox?

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