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  1. #51
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Will be trying out Cobb in the spring...why not? Will look to whoever can help best with the meth integration components. Appreciate all the trial by people out there.

    Dzenno - What boost gain setting did you use on procede and RB wastegates? -Thanks.

    The auto performance business can be full of liars. I've been to a well respected shop where the owner told me they were rebuilding a motor that blew on Shiv's tune. Only problem is I has a discussion with the lead mechanic 5 minutes earlier about the same vehicle and how it had hydro-locked with a UR intake.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    If you go back and read that thread again you'll see I said I'd prefer the Procede to other products EXCEPT the Cobb. It's different because Cobb would eventually allow me to take it to any local tuner and have them tune it whenever I'd like unlike typical flashes. Say I get the OE tuning flash when Jeremy comes to Atlanta in two weeks, it will probably run well until I make another change then what? I'd have to wait until Jeremy came back around to Atlanta or accept a generic flash he may be able to work up long distance. And at least with him I'd have a chance of that happening but if I'd gotten the Dinan tune I'd be screwed. Thats the problem with flashes, where as the Procede allows you to make some changes. I was trying to get the procede because I talked to several people at Cobb who said they had NO plans of working on the n63 for the time being but Cobb>all
    It depends what change you would make but it would run fine. I addded exhausts's etc. and the ecu adjusted just fine. Another tune though made more power as it could be adjusted far more than the OEM ECU was inclined to adjust itself. This is why you can't just bolt on an SC and expect the ECU to know what to do.

    The Procede is dependent on the factory ECU. Moot point anyway, Vishnu has no N63 solution.

    Cobb doesn't really own all, they aren't making the power the piggy's are and they still have a long way to go. The tools to tune it yourself still aren't available and if they have no plans to hit the N63 any time soon well then, they don't own all do they?

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Cobb doesn't really own all, they aren't making the power the piggy's are and they still have a long way to go.
    I'm pretty sure they're making awesome consistent power actually in many cases better than piggys but this is just the timing control argument...let's just not go there, otherwise people will argue forever instead of just getting some results on the track/road and finding ways in bettering the mods on their cars..
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'm pretty sure they're making awesome consistent power actually in many cases better than piggys but this is just the timing control argument...let's just not go there, otherwise people will argue forever instead of just getting some results on the track/road and finding ways in bettering the mods on their cars..
    Consistent sure, but let's not act like Cobb owns the market. They don't, they have a lot to do.

  5. #55
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    Cobb doesn't make big power? Tell that to us running the race map. It makes power just fine.

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    well for me the aggressive maps throttle response with boost so early is not to my liking but for those that love that abrupt force its a awesome map for sure and Shiv has done a great job on these latest offerings....I went more than half throttle but not WOT and the boost was crazy high and I never experienced such force in terms of torque...Everyone loves it but I prefer the 7-11 maps
    That's how I felt about those DIC maps. Just lower the boost gain by 20. Will feel fine.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Cobb doesn't make big power? Tell that to us running the race map. It makes power just fine.
    Just slightly less boost than the piggy's right now, right?

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    Ah, I see
    Throttle response is dependent upon much more factors then a tune alone.
    Remove your bad ass much too big FMIC for the OEM Fmic and throttle response is right where you have allways wanted it.
    5 inch aftermarket is bad ass much to big? FYI I was comparing both tunes on the same mods.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Just slightly less boost than the piggy's right now, right?
    Good question, if the Cobb ap logged boost properly I could tell you. All I know is what Cobb told me which is 20 psi in the midrange tapering to 16 by redline.

    Just FYI most wot pulls are done north of 5000 rpm. Click here to enlarge

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by scottp999 Click here to enlarge
    Will be trying out Cobb in the spring...why not? Will look to whoever can help best with the meth integration components. Appreciate all the trial by people out there.

    Dzenno - What boost gain setting did you use on procede and RB wastegates? -Thanks.

    The auto performance business can be full of liars. I've been to a well respected shop where the owner told me they were rebuilding a motor that blew on Shiv's tune. Only problem is I has a discussion with the lead mechanic 5 minutes earlier about the same vehicle and how it had hydro-locked with a UR intake.
    I think the boost gain was set to 30-40 somewhere in there...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Consistent sure, but let's not act like Cobb owns the market. They don't, they have a lot to do.
    of course they don't own the market, i wasn't talking about owning the market, i was responding to your piggy vs. cobb power making statement, they both make power just different, at times similar, ways...they definitely have a few things to do (e.g. finalize race maps, upped turbo maps, meth safety) but so do the piggies (e.g. part throttle/low rpm fuel control IMO)...

    in terms of owning the market, i can openly say they're the top dog in the flash side of things and results/direction so far are looking very promising
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It depends what change you would make but it would run fine. I addded exhausts's etc. and the ecu adjusted just fine. Another tune though made more power as it could be adjusted far more than the OEM ECU was inclined to adjust itself. This is why you can't just bolt on an SC and expect the ECU to know what to do.

    The Procede is dependent on the factory ECU. Moot point anyway, Vishnu has no N63 solution.

    Cobb doesn't really own all, they aren't making the power the piggy's are and they still have a long way to go. The tools to tune it yourself still aren't available and if they have no plans to hit the N63 any time soon well then, they don't own all do they?
    Sure it would run but not optimized. For example look at the downpipes I added to my N63, the car runs fine but is actually 60whp and 100wtq weaker than stock! It's not the DP's fault it's probably cause I need a tune bad. So say I get a tune on the 18th when OE comes to Atlanta(which I probably will) and then a month later I add an intake or make some other change that could effect VE. Well then I can't get flashed again and I'll at best not be taking full advatange of my mods and as seen with the DP's may actually hurt performance.

    The beauty of the Cobb is that eventually when they allow full tuning access(which they eventually will) someone in my position could take it to any competent local tuner and have the map adjusted to better take advatange of the mod. Yes Cobb doesn't own the markets it doesn't compete in(lol how could it?) but in those it does compete in it usually is the best option besides a standalone ecu. Now yes that isn't available in the N54 market yet but that's why I said 1 to 2 years. By then they should have access and you'll see how much smoother and more efficient the flash should be vs any piggy.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Sure it would run but not optimized. For example look at the downpipes I added to my N63, the car runs fine but is actually 60whp and 100wtq weaker than stock! It's not the DP's fault it's probably cause I need a tune bad. So say I get a tune on the 18th when OE comes to Atlanta(which I probably will) and then a month later I add an intake or make some other change that could effect VE. Well then I can't get flashed again and I'll at best not be taking full advatange of my mods and as seen with the DP's may actually hurt performance.

    The beauty of the Cobb is that eventually when they allow full tuning access(which they eventually will) someone in my position could take it to any competent local tuner and have the map adjusted to better take advatange of the mod. Yes Cobb doesn't own the markets it doesn't compete in(lol how could it?) but in those it does compete in it usually is the best option besides a standalone ecu. Now yes that isn't available in the N54 market yet but that's why I said 1 to 2 years. By then they should have access and you'll see how much smoother and more efficient the flash should be vs any piggy.
    The car is that much weaker than stock? Something is up.

    Yes, would not be optimized but you have no tune period which is the problem.

    An intake isn't going to cause your tune to suddenly lose 60 whp. You won't be optimized perfectly for it but you will still gain power. The ECU is pretty sophisticated. You are losing power due to getting rid of cats I take it and the car running way too rich.

    Yes, if cobb allows full tuning access and if they get to your platform.

    Flashes are smoother and more consistent, we all know that.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The car is that much weaker than stock? Something is up.

    Yes, would not be optimized but you have no tune period which is the problem.

    An intake isn't going to cause your tune to suddenly lose 60 whp. You won't be optimized perfectly for it but you will still gain power. The ECU is pretty sophisticated. You are losing power due to getting rid of cats I take it and the car running way too rich.

    Yes, if cobb allows full tuning access and if they get to your platform.

    Flashes are smoother and more consistent, we all know that.
    Yeah I posted the comparison dyno in alextremos 1/4 thread but it's that much weaker in the midrange. I'm not 100% sure wth is going on because yes the exhaust to me smells pig rich but a friend with a shop put one of those AFR monitors on the exhaust and it read good/a little lean definitely not as rich as I expected it to be based off my nose and it being catless. Plus no carbon build up in the exhaust and the damn mpg seems to be up? Oh well by the end of the month it should be tuned.

  14. #64
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    I had a procede v4, giac, and now jb4, both piggies feel the same to me. The power comes on more abruptly with the piggies, the flash felt smoother, but I'm very happy with the jb4 right now.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The car is that much weaker than stock? Something is up.

    Yes, would not be optimized but you have no tune period which is the problem.

    An intake isn't going to cause your tune to suddenly lose 60 whp. You won't be optimized perfectly for it but you will still gain power. The ECU is pretty sophisticated. You are losing power due to getting rid of cats I take it and the car running way too rich.

    Yes, if cobb allows full tuning access and if they get to your platform.

    Flashes are smoother and more consistent, we all know that.
    Car will not run richer sans cats.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    Car will not run richer sans cats.
    What is the reason he is losing power then?

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    No idea, but something is def up with the car. never seen an exhaust restriction being eliminated killing power like that. Tune is a good place to start.
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  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    No idea, but something is def up with the car. never seen an exhaust restriction being eliminated killing power like that. Tune is a good place to start.
    It is kind of odd...

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    To be clear I'm NOT saying it is a problem with the DP's or that they are bad, my point was when you make a major change you need to be able to tune for it and used the downpipes as an example of how even with a clearly improved part you dont stand to gain much without tuning it in. Also I recall a post either on here or on E90post where someone did a before and after dyno of N55 AR downpipes and he also gained a few peak HP but dropped I think 15-20wtq and if I'm not mistaken it improved with a tune. I went to a local shop called topspeed recently with a friend and their tuner mentioned that these things have some sort of torque limiter that when the dme senses power ramping up to fast it pulls timing??? Never knew that but he was of the opinion that with a proper flash tune I'd see a substantial gain with the DP's.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    their tuner mentioned that these things have some sort of torque limiter that when the dme senses power ramping up to fast it pulls timing???
    Is this possibly the reason why some people are seeing timing flatline post shift? a torque limiter of some sort in the DME which is set too conservatively?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Is this possibly the reason why some people are seeing timing flatline post shift? a torque limiter of some sort in the DME which is set too conservatively?
    No idea, it's the first I've heard of such a thing but I'm just trying to figure why it would show such a drop in power. Car runs smooth and when I took it to the track it showed no I'll effects no misfires or anything just less power.

  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Is this possibly the reason why some people are seeing timing flatline post shift? a torque limiter of some sort in the DME which is set too conservatively?
    I still believe it is "fuel mode" related. The ecu reports fuel mode 6 every time timing flatlines. Across 10 logs showing the same thing, I am inclined to believe there is some buried ecu logic that Cobb hasn't found yet.

  23. #73
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    And on my airfield runs I noticed going into 5th post shift all six cylinders recovered to 0 degrees ramping to 8 by 6000 rpm. Like joshboody said there may be some gear dependent timing logic buried as well.

    The timing recovery looks different as well. I would see one cylinder (4) flatline but the other 5 cylinders had perfect timing.

    it's quite annoying to say the least.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    To be clear I'm NOT saying it is a problem with the DP's or that they are bad, my point was when you make a major change you need to be able to tune for it and used the downpipes as an example of how even with a clearly improved part you dont stand to gain much without tuning it in. Also I recall a post either on here or on E90post where someone did a before and after dyno of N55 AR downpipes and he also gained a few peak HP but dropped I think 15-20wtq and if I'm not mistaken it improved with a tune. I went to a local shop called topspeed recently with a friend and their tuner mentioned that these things have some sort of torque limiter that when the dme senses power ramping up to fast it pulls timing??? Never knew that but he was of the opinion that with a proper flash tune I'd see a substantial gain with the DP's.
    Tune is always needed with DPs. The ESS flash should be available in a few weeks here, I would highly recommend it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    Tune is always needed with DPs. The ESS flash should be available in a few weeks here, I would highly recommend it.
    I've been blowing up roman's phone for a month! He told me it should be ready in a week or so, if they can get it to work with the self flasher I'll buy it immediately if not then Jeremy from OE will be tuning at a shop 10 minutes away from my house in a week and I'll do that. Either way I'm on it.

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