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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's really easy.. Not sure why he won't do it for you. It's like the 2STEP thing. His old box can do it but he is making users buy the whole new system for it. I guess to give them a reason to spend that extra $300? Shrug.. I just don't get the long term business / customer relationship strategy there. Then again I don't get a lot of his actions... Click here to enlarge
    Lol. He gave me the wiring in bits and pieces through text messaging!!!, but when I asked him for the software to control the nitrous and make changes if I decide to and not run what he had, he never responded. It's like giving me a paddle boat without paddles. Unbelievable

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think they all drive about the same. They have the lagfix dialed up a bit stronger at least in the maps I drove before which made it feel less smooth to me than the JB4. And we've had many converts switch to the JB4 before they prefer the street manners after trying both. But all in all they're going to deliver a similar experience and both are adjustable. The only functional difference is with the CPS and for those customers who like CPS we offer it as an add on for $85. Only ~100 JB4 customers are using CPS out of ~4000 JB4s in use but it is available. And our system is still 40% less even if you include the CPS. Also if you want to change it up some day or try say Cobb we don't VIN lock you. Click here to enlarge
    I’m curious about the actual differences. My very limited (and maybe skewed) understanding
    Boost: procede has a little more control and consistency since there’s no dependence on the DME. Easier to diagnose also.
    Timing: even though both may have the same resolution (although I think procede maybe better), the procede has better software integration with timing.
    Fuel: At this time procede gives more clarity, adjustability due to logging channels and user control.

    Throttle control reacting with DME. You can do this 2 ways I think:
    1. an increased linear boost slope over stock (procede) OR
    2. add scaling once WOT… this may only be the older piggy versions.
    The procede is based on MAP/rpm for timing, fuel, and boost control. Is JB like this also, or takes control mainly at WOT.

    The disadvantage to #1 is that you are reliant on the piggy throughout most part throttle, but procede does this really well in my experiences. Disadvantage to #2 is drivability and WOT being a drastic step above part throttle.

    Anyway, could be way off on this… mainly just curious.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why?
    See what he has to say about it ofcourse.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    procede has a little more control and consistency since there’s no dependence on the DME.
    Why no dependence on the DME exactly?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Timing: even though both may have the same resolution (although I think procede maybe better), the procede has better software integration with timing.
    Not really, it just offsets CPS. That isn't even timing control.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    See what he has to say about it ofcourse.
    My question still stands.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
    See what he has to say about it ofcourse.
    He's said before that his customers aren't the drag racing type. Or some BS like that.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not really, it just offsets CPS. That isn't even timing control.
    let's not go there all over again Click here to enlarge i implore you lol
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    let's not go there all over again Click here to enlarge i implore you lol
    yes please.. don't! Click here to enlarge
    || DCT | ESS Tune | ACM Test-pipes | AA Green Filter | Swift Spec-R Springs | Stoptech ST-40 F || || My Youtube Channel|| My Vimeo Channel ||

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandyr Click here to enlarge
    yes please.. don't! Click here to enlarge
    Oh, like another 25 page thread would hurt.

  10. #35
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    I’m curious about the actual differences. My very limited (and maybe skewed) understanding
    Boost: procede has a little more control and consistency since there’s no dependence on the DME. Easier to diagnose also.
    Timing: even though both may have the same resolution (although I think procede maybe better), the procede has better software integration with timing.
    Fuel: At this time procede gives more clarity, adjustability due to logging channels and user control.

    Throttle control reacting with DME. You can do this 2 ways I think:
    1. an increased linear boost slope over stock (procede) OR
    2. add scaling once WOT… this may only be the older piggy versions.

    The procede is based on MAP/rpm for timing, fuel, and boost control. Is JB like this also, or takes control mainly at WOT.

    The disadvantage to #1 is that you are reliant on the piggy throughout most part throttle, but procede does this really well in my experiences. Disadvantage to #2 is drivability and WOT being a drastic step above part throttle.

    Anyway, could be way off on this… mainly just curious.
    On the CPS resolution the JB4 module runs at 64mhz and AFAIK the procede runs at 50mhz, so we have more theoretical resolution. Although the actual resolution depends on implementation, prescalers, etc. I know they recently claimed to have improved their resolution by 8 fold so maybe now it is more similar to what we're running? Sometimes to save memory you'll reduce resolution so you can use 16 bit variables instead of 32 bit variables, etc. Anyway as long as you're not misfiring you likely have sufficient crank signal resolution.

    On the CPS integration if you're talking about backend integration there isn't anything we can't do with it. The only technical difference at the moment is we don't allow positive offset. Only negative offset. But that can be changed with software when the need comes up. Also the way the JB4 is setup we are not limited to 500rpm / .5psi table resolution, etc, for tuning. Now if you're talking about the end user custom tuning adjustment it's intentionally simplified to save us time with support/training. Basically, we're not trying to offer a fully custom tunable solution or compete with tunes that do. It isn't our market. The interface is setup to allow reasonable and easy adjustment and many tuners/customers have found it more than sufficient for their custom tuning needs. For the rest there are other options out there that may better meet their needs.

    Regarding fuel control I'm not aware of any technical differences. We both remap fuel pressure (they call it open loop for some reason) and o2_bias. The JB4 has always had 2.7k biasing resistors which we've found provides all the range and resolution we need for 98% of the applications out there. For the last 2% the resistors can easily be changed.

    On the boost control there are differences but for the N54 I prefer our more integrated method. For the JB4 for the N55 we run a more isolated system for technical reasons related to that application.

  11. #36
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    Honestly I'd be surprised to see alot of piggyback usage a year or two from now regardless which system it is. Cobb is simply better in every respect and the advantages the piggies currently hold will fade away once the Cobb if fully user tuneable.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Honestly I'd be surprised to see alot of piggyback usage a year or two from now regardless which system it is. Cobb is simply better in every respect and the advantages the piggies currently hold will fade away once the Cobb if fully user tuneable.
    Odd to hear you say this considering you were saying you wanted Vishnu for your 550.

  13. #38
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    Hey Terry, thanks for the response.

    For fuel I’m mainly referring to lack of log channels which complicates diagnostics. At least in my situation altering the fuel mapping has been important.

    For JB cps, is it active at <WOT… this is what I meant by integration. If actual and DME boost are linear slopes to throttle then you are running increased timing over stock. Or do you mirror DME boost to a point?

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Honestly I'd be surprised to see alot of piggyback usage a year or two from now regardless which system it is. Cobb is simply better in every respect and the advantages the piggies currently hold will fade away once the Cobb if fully user tuneable.
    I agree to a point, but Cobb is doing their own manipulation... so we'll see how ATR turns out. But for meth control I just can't see flash only working well. Some type of hybrid will need to be used.

    I'd love to see someone try procede on Cobb... Erita how about it. I think I could help with the settings, but I take no responsibility in results.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Hey Terry, thanks for the response.

    For fuel I’m mainly referring to lack of log channels which complicates diagnostics. At least in my situation altering the fuel mapping has been important.

    For JB cps, is it active at <WOT… this is what I meant by integration. If actual and DME boost are linear slopes to throttle then you are running increased timing over stock. Or do you mirror DME boost to a point?
    We're always adding and removing logging channels. As long as you have CAN access you can log almost anything you want. For example, the latest firmware has fuel trims, low fuel pressure, high fuel pressure, DME observed LPH, etc. Basically anything you'd want.

    On the CPS it is always active and mapped mainly on boost and RPM. So at 13psi we offset more than 7psi, for example. Below 7psi there is no offset applied. Unless you're doing a 2step, shift, or something else where we have something mapped in. Basically it can do whatever we want. The latest version of the firmware adds a degree of offset per gear, etc. It's a very open programming system so the sky is the limit.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Odd to hear you say this considering you were saying you wanted Vishnu for your 550.
    If you go back and read that thread again you'll see I said I'd prefer the Procede to other products EXCEPT the Cobb. It's different because Cobb would eventually allow me to take it to any local tuner and have them tune it whenever I'd like unlike typical flashes. Say I get the OE tuning flash when Jeremy comes to Atlanta in two weeks, it will probably run well until I make another change then what? I'd have to wait until Jeremy came back around to Atlanta or accept a generic flash he may be able to work up long distance. And at least with him I'd have a chance of that happening but if I'd gotten the Dinan tune I'd be screwed. Thats the problem with flashes, where as the Procede allows you to make some changes. I was trying to get the procede because I talked to several people at Cobb who said they had NO plans of working on the n63 for the time being but Cobb>all

  17. #42
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    One thing I'll give procede is part throttle response is smoother than on jb4 on the 6at.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    One thing I'll give procede is part throttle response is smoother than on jb4 on the 6at.
    Not with the new aggressive maps! Its fierce abrupt power and its like a freight train in partial throttle very similar to JB4

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    Have you guys seen the new fuzzy logic maps? Very agressive. All the arguing that 11.XX AFR's were unnecessary and $#@!, and then he goes and makes it standard with the new public releases. Give me a $#@!ing break. He also must have added some smoothing to the AFR logs, theyre much better but with the same hardware. I cant see any other solution otherwise. I'm waiting for motors to pop.

  20. #45
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    AFR smoothing lol Shiv never fails to impress Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    One thing I'll give procede is part throttle response is smoother than on jb4 on the 6at.
    What software version for the JB4 are you referring to?
    I personally think the JB4 is very well dosable on partial throttle.
    It is not like I am jumping into the car in front of me when pulling away at traffic lights...
    And I also have a N54AT with JB4
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Not with the new aggressive maps! Its fierce abrupt power and its like a freight train in partial throttle very similar to JB4
    You might be thinking about the jb3. The jb4 isn't that bad but I preferred the procede for daily driving. Cobb linear throttle isn't all that bad either but it's an acquired taste.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
    What software version for the JB4 are you referring to?
    I personally think the JB4 is very well dosable on partial throttle.
    It is not like I am jumping into the car in front of me when pulling away at traffic lights...
    And I also have a N54AT with JB4
    Im talking more about throttle response not throttle mapping.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    You might be thinking about the jb3. The jb4 isn't that bad but I preferred the procede for daily driving. Cobb linear throttle isn't all that bad either but it's an acquired taste.
    well for me the aggressive maps throttle response with boost so early is not to my liking but for those that love that abrupt force its a awesome map for sure and Shiv has done a great job on these latest offerings....I went more than half throttle but not WOT and the boost was crazy high and I never experienced such force in terms of torque...Everyone loves it but I prefer the 7-11 maps

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Im talking more about throttle response not throttle mapping.
    Ah, I see
    Throttle response is dependent upon much more factors then a tune alone.
    Remove your bad ass much too big FMIC for the OEM Fmic and throttle response is right where you have allways wanted it.
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