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    Highway Pulls - Stock DCT M3 vs. Stock C63 AMG

    I have been telling people for some time that the DCT M3 M3 vs. the C63 is a drivers race, hopefully it finally sinks in:


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    I am the driver of the M3, and it is indeed a driver's race! Glad to see the awareness is going around. Heard too many times that a C63 should take the M3 easily, but hopefully that thought will be laid to rest.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leftlanefiend Click here to enlarge
    I am the driver of the M3, and it is indeed a driver's race! Glad to see the awareness is going around. Heard too many times that a C63 should take the M3 easily, but hopefully that thought will be laid to rest.
    You have no idea how many battles I got in all over the internet from people telling me I was an idiot for stating it is a drivers race and that the DCT makes a big difference.

    Thank you for your video, this type of comparison is extremely valuable for people to see that torque on paper does not mean everything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You have no idea how many battles I got in all over the internet from people telling me I was an idiot for stating it is a drivers race and that the DCT makes a big difference.

    Thank you for your video, this type of comparison is extremely valuable for people to see that torque on paper does not mean everything.
    No problem, and I'm sorry for those unnecessary troubles. I've heard it too, but it just doesn't sink in with certain people...hopefully until now.

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    C63- 3924lbs curb weight
    M3 -3704 lbs unladen weight

    so maybe add 20 or so lbs to the c63 for the unladen weight?

    Still...weight is definitely a factor Click here to enlarge

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    interesting, and sucks traffic was on the road. i like to see videos at night, usually less other cars Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    merc had a passenger, solo vs solo the c63 would pull and began inching up top etiher way. imo its close, but the merc with equal drivers will win every time. Wtf is a drivers race anyway, I can beat a lambo is an auto civic if the lambo crashes....hes a horrible driver, Im not. So is a civic vs lambo a drivers race?

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    I'm assuming we're talking about driver skill in terms of managing his shift timing and starting in the powerband of your car. At a minimum it appears the cars are much closer than their spec sheets would lead you to believe.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Stock c63s have trapped 116-117, no stock m3 is touching that. Every now and again you get a race where two cars are close for whatever reasons. Either way like is said, equal drivers the merc will pull every time imo.

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    Off the line, at a drag strip for example, the C63's superior torque helps it get through 1st gear a little quicker plus that little bit extra weight might just help them hook up a little better (which isn't much of an issue with either of these cars, I've driven a C63 and two DCT M3s and both cars can get off the line just fine) so it doesn't surprise me that the C63 is quicker at the strip.

    From a roll, the main reason manual M3s were getting pulled on by C63s is the gearing. I would say the horsepower advantage of the C63 is only enough to make up for its extra weight and all that extra torque is not being generated at high rpms, the biggest difference was the shorter and more closely spaced ratios in the 7 speed gearbox. Now that the M3 has a DCT with 7 speeds of very similar length to the 7 speed auto in the C63, that main advantage has disappeared and the result is two cars which are very similar in performance when you race from a roll.

    With that said, if both cars were one gear up, the C63's torque would again give it a slight advantage.

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    c63 pulled...end of story

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Stock c63s have trapped 116-117, no stock m3 is touching that. Every now and again you get a race where two cars are close for whatever reasons. Either way like is said, equal drivers the merc will pull every time imo.
    Well, your opinion is wrong.

    Which car trapped 117? 1 car trapped 115 stock on drag times in negative DA. A manual M3 did this stock.

    It's a drivers race and I have blown away so many C63's it is a joke that people think the car is faster based on paper figures. It is heavier, has worse gearing vs. DCT, and the transmission shifts far slower.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dark335i Click here to enlarge
    c63 pulled...end of story
    LOL, what race were you watching?

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    show videos then sticky.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    show videos then sticky.
    Of what? Every run I have ever done?

    My ride was far quicker than a stock M3.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    merc had a passenger, solo vs solo the c63 would pull and began inching up top etiher way. imo its close, but the merc with equal drivers will win every time. Wtf is a drivers race anyway, I can beat a lambo is an auto civic if the lambo crashes....hes a horrible driver, Im not. So is a civic vs lambo a drivers race?
    That analogy doesn't even remotely relate to this scenario. What is being argued here is that a race (from a roll) between a C63 and an M3 is a driver's race. There is profound disillusionment to the fact that the C63 amg would leave an M3 behind in a race with great ease, which obviously isn't the case here. So back to what's being argued...this is a driver's race, meaning instead of going straight to the spec sheet, the winner of this race is relied upon shift times, reaction, powerband, etc.. And to the person bringing up equal drivers...there is no such thing as an equal driver, which is why we have these videos to begin with, at least in my opinion anyway.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dark335i Click here to enlarge
    c63 pulled...end of story
    Click here to enlargeWhat video were you watching? If you're referring to the 2nd pull we did, yes he inched back up to me even as I got the jump, but my next gear change is what allowed him to do that, whether I waited to long, or not long enough to shift (atleast that's how I felt it). This is why we didn't do just 1 pull.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leftlanefiend Click here to enlarge
    That analogy doesn't even remotely relate to this scenario. What is being argued here is that a race (from a roll) between a C63 and an M3 is a driver's race. There is profound disillusionment to the fact that the C63 amg would leave an M3 behind in a race with great ease, which obviously isn't the case here. So back to what's being argued...this is a driver's race, meaning instead of going straight to the spec sheet, the winner of this race is relied upon shift times, reaction, powerband, etc.. And to the person bringing up equal drivers...there is no such thing as an equal driver, which is why we have these videos to begin with, at least in my opinion anyway.



    Click here to enlargeWhat video were you watching?
    ok hows this, more then 50 percent of the time, when you start a m3 and c63 from the same speed and race them till 130-150, the c63 WILL pull.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leftlanefiend Click here to enlarge
    That analogy doesn't even remotely relate to this scenario. What is being argued here is that a race (from a roll) between a C63 and an M3 is a driver's race. There is profound disillusionment to the fact that the C63 amg would leave an M3 behind in a race with great ease, which obviously isn't the case here. So back to what's being argued...this is a driver's race, meaning instead of going straight to the spec sheet, the winner of this race is relied upon shift times, reaction, powerband, etc.. And to the person bringing up equal drivers...there is no such thing as an equal driver, which is why we have these videos to begin with, at least in my opinion anyway.



    Click here to enlargeWhat video were you watching? If you're referring to the 2nd pull we did, yes he inched back up to me even as I got the jump, but my next gear change is what allowed him to do that, whether I waited to long, or not long enough to shift. This is why we didn't do just 1 pull.
    Exactly people see the C63 paper figures and state it is soooo much faster than the M3. Ridiculous, as you just proved.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    ok hows this, more then 50 percent of the time, when you start a m3 and c63 from the same speed and race them till 130-150, the c63 WILL pull.
    Disagree if M3 is DCT agree if M3 is manual.

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    i dont think starting from a roll would help the c63 since the torque isn't much of a factor at high rpms.

    edit: and im guessing this isnt the 2010 c63 with P31 package. idk if the extra 30 hp would and modified internals would help.
    Last edited by shahsk; 05-11-2010 at 07:21 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    ok hows this, more then 50 percent of the time, when you start a m3 and c63 from the same speed and race them till 130-150, the c63 WILL pull.
    We can't base human error off of a 50/50 chance of occurring or not. What I can say is that we must not overlook real life outcomes just because of the manufacturers specs of their cars. Also, like Sticky has pointed out, manual and dct produce different outcomes because of the gearing ratios.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Disagree if M3 is DCT agree if M3 is manual.
    Did you miss the video above? The c63 had a passenger while the m3 was solol and the c63 still INCHED. Technically in the video posts, the m3 lost while having zero passengers

    I understand this is a bmw forum, but you guys sound like a bunch of fanbois right now. lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Did you miss the video above? The c63 had a passenger while the m3 was solol and the c63 still INCHED. Technically in the video posts, the m3 lost while having zero passengers

    I understand this is a bmw forum, but you guys sound like a bunch of fanbois right now. lol
    Inched? Seriously? LOL, ok and then when it changed gears the M3 inched.

    Technically, the C63 weighs more to begin with so a passenger is a smaller % of the total weight than it would be if the M3 had a passenger if you want to play that game.

    No, we sound like guys who are saying it is a drivers race and the that the C63 is not faster which people do not get. You stated 117 mph trap speeds which was incorrect, we have have seen 115 mph in negative DA on drag radials and the M3 had done 115 mph stock in positive DA. What do you think of that?

    Stock for stock, it's a heads up race and something like a passenger, amount of fuel, when you get on the gas, are enough to change the outcome, that is how close the cars are.

    Car and driver did a test of the DCT vs. the manual in comparison to the C63 and the DCT numbers are stronger. People just don't get it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Inched? Seriously? LOL, ok and then when it changed gears the M3 inched.

    Technically, the C63 weighs more to begin with so a passenger is a smaller % of the total weight than it would be if the M3 had a passenger if you want to play that game.

    No, we sound like guys who are saying it is a drivers race and the that the C63 is not faster which people do not get. You stated 117 mph trap speeds which was incorrect, we have have seen 115 mph in negative DA on drag radials and the M3 had done 115 mph stock in positive DA. What do you think of that?

    Stock for stock, it's a heads up race and something like a passenger, amount of fuel, when you get on the gas, are enough to change the outcome, that is how close the cars are.

    Car and driver did a test of the DCT vs. the manual in comparison to the C63 and the DCT numbers are stronger. People just don't get it.
    Don't give me that passenger bull$#@! sticky. You know damn well if there was no passenger the c63 would have clearly pulled.

    What do i think of the proof out there? I keep seeing reviews and the m3 has yet to win one lol. So i think the m3 is slower, actually i know for a fact the m3 is slower lol. Not by much, but slower.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Did you miss the video above? The c63 had a passenger while the m3 was solol and the c63 still INCHED. Technically in the video posts, the m3 lost while having zero passengers

    I understand this is a bmw forum, but you guys sound like a bunch of fanbois right now. lol
    In the 1st and 3rd pull, the M3 if anything INCHED on the C63 during the gear changes. The C63 remained by my side the entire time until I had to slow down for traffic. There is no evidence of him inching ahead of me. Fanboy's? No. The C63 is a great car, and a fast one at that. I'm just trying to lay these baseless claims to rest.

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