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  1. #51
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    will see how the new ones work in my car this weekend Click here to enlarge . Cobb stage 2plus is too weak (eventhough great to drive and lots of fun).
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    will see how the new ones work in my car this weekend Click here to enlarge . Cobb stage 2plus is too weak (eventhough great to drive and lots of fun).
    When do you think Cobb will start to put down 400whp?
    Click here to enlarge


  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    will see how the new ones work in my car this weekend Click here to enlarge . Cobb stage 2plus is too weak (eventhough great to drive and lots of fun).
    Don't confuse weak with smooth. I believe dzenno hit 440-450 on pump gas with a basic stage 2 plus agressive map.
    My stock turbo car hit 117-118 on pump with the ots stage 2 plus agressive map. It really surprised me.

    Then I saw a bunch of dynojet numbers and the cobb power curvers are buttery smooth. That rysandro or whatever guy on e90 had a smoothing of 2 and the power curve looked very very smooth. Terry's testing, aside from that boost drop at 5600rpm showed the same smoothness.

  4. #54
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    Testing my multi-quote skills... peace, or not... let's just fight over tunes... fun it is. title line have an ending, yep->

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    This has nothing to do with hating on the Procede, but merely pointing out reasons and solutions as to why TIMING flatlines post-shift on the latest DME software, which affects JB4 users as well. This impacts users off methanol as well if you did more research on the topic. The good news is I believe Cobb knows why and how to correct the timing issues, but I haven't really pursued it any further as multiple users have confirmed, meth is worthless on stage 2+.

    My beef with Shiv is the fact he speaks as if he has a solution when he really doesn't, and when he gets questioned, deflects and blames hardware. In his world, his tune is perfect and if something doesn't seem right, the car is to blame. Simply stating the truth and setting correct expectations would have less people questioning or attacking his statements.

    If he would have simply said:
    "At this time, we are investigating the possible cause of this known issue, we will attempt to solve the problem. It is possible this may not be resolvable due to the limitations of our tune".

    Instead of:
    "You are running too much boost on an inferior meth kit that is why you are flatlining timing".

    Do you see the problem with this? Plenty of us running an "inferior" meth kit without issue for years. All of a sudden it's the cause of timing issues induced by the DME update?

    How about speaking for the numerous people who tore their cars apart chasing plugs, coils and injectors for a misfire issue that was tune related? How about dzenno tearing his car apart chasing ghosts after Shiv told him the OCC is causing misfires?

    Sorry for the OT. This isn't a bash on the Procede, but more the tuner.
    Myst, the posted log above you are flatlining still with a flash… this is BMW software, similar to a hardware issue. Once Shiv figured out past misfires were not hardware related, he worked to fix it. Sure he’s going to have an initial thought based on his current knowledge. And you seem kinda like a whinny baby lately… not sure about then... so some people may not take you too seriously sometimes.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    410whp with stock intake? Isn't it a limitation after 375whp?
    You can’t say hp limit, but airflow… which is higher than 375hp equivalent in my opinion. I can run 375hp on 13psi. DCI coming though.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Maybe he has a Mr.5 airbox or a panel filter?

    I wouldn't be one bit surprised if he peaks over 410whp with the aggressive "calibrations" Shiv is beta testing. That thing peaks 20 psi post-shift briefly right in the meat of the powerband sometimes. Yet another beef I have with the Procede, post-shift it overshoots target on occasion; not sure if this is intentional or unwanted.
    Boost overshoot… come on. You can tune it out. This happens with Cobb also depending on your hardware. Can't tune every car perfectly right out of the box.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Don't confuse weak with smooth. I believe dzenno hit 440-450 on pump gas with a basic stage 2 plus agressive map.
    My stock turbo car hit 117-118 on pump with the ots stage 2 plus agressive map. It really surprised me.

    Then I saw a bunch of dynojet numbers and the cobb power curvers are buttery smooth. That rysandro or whatever guy on e90 had a smoothing of 2 and the power curve looked very very smooth. Terry's testing, aside from that boost drop at 5600rpm showed the same smoothness.
    Your run was definitely very strong... and another Cobb 2 ran 116ish at the same track I believe... still strong. I'm curious to see some "well tuned" piggy runs now that its winter.

    Also I would love to see the VANOS logs for stage 1, 2, and stock with BT.... can you log stock by the Cobb box?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Your run was definitely very strong... and another Cobb 2 ran 116ish at the same track I believe... still strong. I'm curious to see some "well tuned" piggy runs now that its winter.

    Also I would love to see the VANOS logs for stage 1, 2, and stock with BT.... can you log stock by the Cobb box?
    The 116 guy did it at a different track/state. As for me there was a v5 car there on meth, auto, that went 117-118. kyluII is his user name.

  7. #57
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    on my vbox i got $#@!ty time on the stock map . i hope my engine is fine and will test procede to see the difference but the time i got on vbox was not that good even if the car run strong.
    i do vbox and not ass feeling here...
    see log below. great AT shifting from level 10. street was not straight on high speed but the result is extremely disappointing
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Don't confuse weak with smooth. I believe dzenno hit 440-450 on pump gas with a basic stage 2 plus agressive map.
    My stock turbo car hit 117-118 on pump with the ots stage 2 plus agressive map. It really surprised me.

    Then I saw a bunch of dynojet numbers and the cobb power curvers are buttery smooth. That rysandro or whatever guy on e90 had a smoothing of 2 and the power curve looked very very smooth. Terry's testing, aside from that boost drop at 5600rpm showed the same smoothness.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Josh, I appreciate the valor in which you defend Shiv and his product.

    If you would kindly read the entirety of this thread, you will clearly see the point is that with the Cobb AP, the reason behind this issue can be logged and addressed. There was a brief discussion between myself and Terry on page 1 of this thread as to which AP parameters need to be read. And this isn't a hardware issue. This is a TUNING issue.

    Like I said before, the tune has deficiencies. Even Shiv's competitor Terry outlined these deficiencies within this thread when you questioned them. The difference is Terry acknowledges and attempts to move forward, in comparison to Shiv's commando approach which many of us know is simply bull$#@!.

    A logical explanation and solution can be found via the logging capabilities of the Cobb AP unit. Not being provided outrageous comments such as "you have a crappy meth kit" per your tuner of choice. If my meth kit has something to do with it, tell me or show me why it was working perfectly on the old DME software yet it flatlines now. If you can't fix it, you simply don't know. If you don't know, tell us. It's not that difficult to be honest with us.

    This has nothing to do with being spiteful towards Shiv. This has everything to do with a tuner that flat out lies or misrepresents himself and his product. For example, if Terry or Rob engaged in the same deceitful practices, they'd both be hearing it from me too.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Myst, the posted log above you are flatlining still with a flash… this is BMW software, similar to a hardware issue. Once Shiv figured out past misfires were not hardware related, he worked to fix it. Sure he’s going to have an initial thought based on his current knowledge. And you seem kinda like a whinny baby lately… not sure about then... so some people may not take you too seriously sometimes.


    You can’t say hp limit, but airflow… which is higher than 375hp equivalent in my opinion. I can run 375hp on 13psi. DCI coming though.


    Boost overshoot… come on. You can tune it out. This happens with Cobb also depending on your hardware. Can't tune every car perfectly right out of the box.
    Oh BTW, last time I checked, you can't set gear-dependent boost targets on the Procede. And yes, I have fiddled with the custom user software and actually know how to use it. Explain to us HOW this can be fixed via the tuning interface. This issue has been present since last year. Just no one cares enough to say anything about it.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    on my vbox i got $#@!ty time on the stock map . i hope my engine is fine and will test procede to see the difference but the time i got on vbox was not that good even if the car run strong.
    i do vbox and not ass feeling here...
    see log below. great AT shifting from level 10. street was not straight on high speed but the result is extremely disappointing
    Click here to enlarge
    hmm, what's the deal with that? I'm guessing that boost taper up top from the stage 2 OTS map is hurting your 100-200km. Keep in mind though, the manuals destroy the autos all else equal in the 60-130. But we destroy them in the quarter mile on a consistency basis. Click here to enlarge

  10. #60
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Funny you mention the PWM vs. PPS. The latest high torque "innovation" on the PWM kit is to just run it at 100% duty cycle like an on/off boost switch. How's that for coming full circle? Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    Wow that PWM is really being utilized to it's fullest potential! Lol

    Did you also know that according to Vishnu Performance a PWM meth kit is a great way to lower oil temps too? I'm not making this up ppl, this is what a member on e90post was told after asking about ways to keep oil temps down by the El Presidente of Vishnu Tuning..

    Like themyst said, nothing against procede, it's great for what it provides and does with clear shortcomings in the area of fuel control that aren't catastrophe prone at the stock turbo/boost levels obviously...I'm just tired of El Presidente and some pretty bold claims made recently and in the near past Click here to enlarge lol
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
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    but... but... that PWM kit atomizes so much better! Click here to enlarge

    Hey Terry, would you do ATR street tunes for money if that time came? Click here to enlarge Someone mentioned on shivpost that Shiv and Terry should do ATR tunes for people, and I was thinking why the heck not?

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    but... but... that PWM kit atomizes so much better! Click here to enlarge

    Hey Terry, would you do ATR street tunes for money if that time came? Click here to enlarge Someone mentioned on shivpost that Shiv and Terry should do ATR tunes for people, and I was thinking why the heck not?
    Tuning car by car is fun work but not something I'd imagine getting in to with any sort of volume. Although, depending on the interface perhaps I could write autotuning software for it.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Funny you mention the PWM vs. PPS. The latest high torque "innovation" on the PWM kit is to just run it at 100% duty cycle like an on/off boost switch. How's that for coming full circle? Click here to enlarge

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...ethlog21-1.jpg
    Can someone explain what's the bad thing about it? Graphs look $#@!ty, that's all i got from looking at it. lol

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Can someone explain what's the bad thing about it? Graphs look $#@!ty, that's all i got from looking at it. lol
    Actually the graph itself looks fine. The point is that meth is at full flow without any discernible variance per Vishnu marketing, making it do essentially the same thing as a cheapo $200 meth kit.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Actually the graph itself looks fine. The point is that meth is at full flow without any discernible variance per Vishnu marketing, making it do essentially the same thing as a cheapo $200 meth kit.
    +1.

  17. #67
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    Lol @ the meth kit BS.

    I'll be honest, I love my JB4 but I want to try the Cobb. My buddies have Access Ports for their Subarus and it seems simple and solid. I like the idea of potentially safer/more powerful fueling. I don't like using the throttle blade to regulate boost, or dropping ignition advance more than a few degrees below the stock curve.

    The difference in 10° timing alone at the same boost level on my Z makes is MUCH more lively/snappy going into boost.

    The meth integration is just so damn easy with the JB4 though.... Maybe I'll end up doing a "hybrid" setup to have the fueling benefits of the flash + the JB4 as a meth/nitrous/boost controller......

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Actually the graph itself looks fine. The point is that meth is at full flow without any discernible variance per Vishnu marketing, making it do essentially the same thing as a cheapo $200 meth kit.
    Except for the fact that this is only true for full throttle situations from 14 psi upwards.

    At part-throttle and between 5 to 14 psi, the injector duty cycle ramps up from 21% to 80%. So it is pulsing - just at a different point in the power curve where full flow is not needed.

    Go have a look at the user interface tables for the latest maps and you will see for yourself.

    But I guess you guys only drive WOT and idle - no in between.....Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
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    There isn't much benefit to meth at low loads below 10psi. And at 10psi to 14psi there isn't any real benefit to progressively spraying meth provided the flow sensor/boost mapping is setup properly. If these guys have no real driability issues using a basic on/off boost switch at 10psi it's hard to make the case for a PWM solenoid or PWM pump control kit.

    Still, I think the argument here is that they are requiring PWM solenoid upgrades to use the newest maps. Which basically run that $1000 meth kit like a $250 kit. Click here to enlarge

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    But I guess you guys only drive WOT and idle - no in between.....Click here to enlarge
    If you think about it, that IS true..... why would you want meth spraying at part throttle? During a race you are either flooring it or you aren't, except the launch.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    Except for the fact that this is only true for full throttle situations from 14 psi upwards.

    At part-throttle and between 5 to 14 psi, the injector duty cycle ramps up from 21% to 80%. So it is pulsing - just at a different point in the power curve where full flow is not needed.

    Go have a look at the user interface tables for the latest maps and you will see for yourself.

    But I guess you guys only drive WOT and idle - no in between.....Click here to enlarge
    The point is as Terry said, meth is a waste at low boost levels. If it helps you justify your purchase, by all means.

    The only reason why I don't have my boost switch spray even later is because then it induced a map transition lag. Click here to enlarge

    Then again, what do I care, I don't even run meth right now.

  22. #72
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    I’ll take the duty of adding some balance to BB.

    Differences between pps and pwm are not huge, but they do exist.
    - pwm you are flowing known volume exactly when wanted… like an on/off switch on a hose compared to turning the knob. I’m sure Terry could do this at WOT with the JB setup, switching the solenoid after the pump… he may already. Or even using the 10hz limitedly to lower IATs at part throttle.
    - The DC below WOT is actually quite nice for IATs and gives you more of a linear throttle compared with an on/off pps, which is linear to X and then jumps to Y boost. Not a biggy for some, but a difference in drivability. Probably fairly significant in road racing. I'm sure the octane adds advantages also even at part throttle... hell I knocked when stock and that's only 8spi.
    - The customization is nice also… everythings basically adjustable in the mapping, where you have to change nozzles and pressure in pps. You all will say no, pwm at the pump can be changed, but this it’s the best (or even a good) route.

    AND the pps kits are NOT $200 if you want a working flow sensor with solenoid, but yes much less expensive. I think you could get by with no charge pipe fairly easily on Shiv’s kit. Really there's $300 difference (i think) between JB and Vishnu WW kits if you customize your own charge pipe.

  23. #73
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    Josh, if you find the benefits at part throttle worth the overly excessive cost of admission, to each their own.

    The point here is as Terry said, and many of us can agree to, meth is pointless at part throttle, and the granular precision offered by a PWM kit vs a PPS kit is not even necessary with the original progressive meth mapping implementation. If meth does not flow, you're on a pump gas map. if it hits expected flow, it transitions to the higher boost map.

    I never engage meth at part throttle, and I have the pressure switch set at 11 psi. Saves plenty of meth putting around town instead of spraying meth at 5 psi but comes on with a smooth transition once going WOT.

    My meth kit cost me $280 from DevilsOwn, a CM10 nozzle for $30, and a used SnowPerformance flow sensor for $60. Other than the POS labonte flow sensor that kept on failing which Dan gave me a refund for, it provides the exact same gains, reliability and octane/cooling benefits as the PWM kit.

    Those testimonials Shiv undoubtedly asks customers to write, are ALL from customers who never ran a meth kit previously, and likely would not even know the difference if they drove a N54 with a PPS meth kit.

    But like I said, to each their own.

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    Shiv did not realize the additional fueling needs for Procede running upgraded turbos and FBO at full boost. The meth kit is running at 100% already at mediocre power levels. His kit has higher pressure drop.

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    Josh its kinda funny to me that you see a benefit in PWM vs PPS at part throttle and IATs but when we talk about a clear litation in fuel control and lean AFRs at part throttle with the procede you brush it off as it isn't really lean it's just stockish Click here to enlarge shiv's aggressive marketing of his customized PWM aquamist kit is nothing but a way to provide vendor lockin for poor guys running it making it hard for them to ever switch tunes and use the same kit with ease

    But to each his own Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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