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  1. #1
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    Wink 471WHP/469WTQ - COBB/JB4 on Pump 94 Gas

    Hit the dyno yesterday with my current COBB/JB4 setup. Lucky me my meth wouldn't turn on as it looks like my boost line going to the meth controller is f*ed somewhere and isn't sending enough boost to it to activate it automatically. I ended up running on pump gas for most of the runs and then near the end it dawned on me that I could've just manually activated meth using voltage to the controller input instead of boost for the runs but by then my time on the dyno was almost done Click here to enlarge

    I was on pump 94 gas for the runs shown below. Initially dyno graphs looked quite sketchy with significant oscillation in power down low below 4.5k rpm due to boost oscillating. After some adjustments to JB4's map6 and user adjustable settings I seemed to have found a way to stabilize boost enough for a decent power curve but, being anal, I'll have to work on it some more as its not as good as I think it can be.

    In the end I managed to try 3 different setups:

    1) 2 custom "stock" maps from COBB running stock boost, stock timing and one is 11AFR and the other 12AFR with the JB4 map6 on top for boost. JB4's fuel settings all set to zero (i.e. JB4's closed loop wideband biasing disabled).

    2) Current COBB Stage 2+ OTS map. I ran it on its own as well as JB4 map6 on top. This map gave me some greif on the dyno as it obviously doesn't have the misfire detection turned off which is required on my car. In its original form it runs strong on my car but stacking a JB4 on top 2-3 times caused the car to misfire up top. But I was curious what I could do with it on the dyno so I ran it.

    After all was said and done, results are below. Spraying 100% meth didn't help AT ALL which surprised me, if anything it reduced power as its already running rich enough. I added race gas at the end thinking I could squeeze out a bit more but nothing changed again as I wasn't changing boost as it was already maxed for this stacked setup.

    Now the most boost I could squeeze out on this setup is 20psi midrange tapering to 16.5-17psi at 6k rpm down to 16psi at redline. It'll be interesting to see how upping boost higher changes numbers especially up top. A lot of people say, just hold 20psi to redline as you're on RB turbos. Sure, I'll try it, but IMO if the cylinder head won't allow them to flow that much air into the cylinders it won't do much. We're still gated by the port sizes on the head no matter what and just arbitrarily raising boost by Xpsi won't necessarily mean more power near redline. Remains to be seen of course...

    My IATs were in the 95-110F range as meth wasn't working in the beginning when the dynos below were taken. With meth flowing IATs went down to about 80F. Ambient temp in the dyno room was around 70F and, shockingly enough, as I was making changes I didn't realize someone turned the damn fan off, damn it! lol

    Anyways, just to show work in progress, as it really was a totally $#@!ty day on the dyno...this stacked tune is more aggressive than I'd like for pump gas but what I really like is Stage2+ on its own with RB turbos and pump gas putting down 450whp, NO METH. On the street here in Canada in winter with sub zero ambient temps, even without meth, on the Stage 2+ OTS map I wouldn't be surprised if this is really 470-480whp just on pump gas.

    Numbers are shown UNCORRECTED, STD was correcting it higher. If anyone is interested in STD numbers I can post those as well.

    In the end, ton of room to play with, more tinkering required to squeeze out more with more boost once I get my meth flow back and get the ability to up boost either by changing to a 12ohm jb4 board from the current 15ohm OR get yet another stockish calibration from the good guys at COBB, or maybe both...

    more to follow...i think this is really pretty good for a lower than stock timing curve...the tune runs up to 8 deg less timing down low and 2 deg less than stock up top (stage 2+ OTS that is)...

    P.S. For those that recall my dynos back in March with procede in the car it did 496whp UNCORRECTED at 19psi@6krpm on race gas and meth, 480 something STD on stock timing, 13AFR midrange and 12.5-12.8 up top as rev2 couldn't run any richer and we were worried about fuel system limitations..Ambient temps in the room were 68F..
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    very nice! great job, and for pump only, that'll be fun to set a new pump gas only record down the strip.

  3. #3
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    Darn solid numbers, looking forward to your results with meth and 12ohm.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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    So 471 no meth with pump? That isn't bad at all.

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    Any logs? With no meth and no CPS at that power level any problems with knock?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Any logs? With no meth and no CPS at that power level any problems with knock?
    I didn't get to correlate the logs to dyno pulls as I was playing with settings too much and doing a couple pulls...in any case, there's definitely knock retard when I'm using the stockish map without meth due to high IATs...however there is minimal to no knock retard when using a stage2+ or stage3alpha base maps because they run lower timing...finding the right one to run will be key but I have a feeling it'll be two distinct setups in the end: 1) race setup with the stockish one in order to squeeze out the most on meth+race gas and 2) ultimate street setup with the stage2+ or stage3alpha as base (lower timing than stock) and meth on top to raise boost
    Click here to enlarge

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    How is AFR on the dyno trace?

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    Trying to use tags...

    @dzenno

    Will those COBB maps be made available to others? We are a few piggy-users that might be interested in controlling AFR's as well?

    Any news on meth integration for COBB or is the way forward to use a JB4 for meth and dash hijack etc?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Any news on meth integration for COBB or is the way forward to use a JB4 for meth and dash hijack etc?
    Don't remember what thread I read it in but apparently they are working on meth integration with the flash.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    How is AFR on the dyno trace?
    Their tailpipe sniffer-dyno hookup didnt work and they offered me to hook up a gauge that I could look at which I didn't need as I've got the AFR in the jb4 logs off stock widebands which aren't influenced by jb4's bias as fuel settings are zeroed out...AFR was solid...I can post an AFR log of a run(s) here if anyone cares but they were 11-12 and below rock solid all the way through

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Trying to use tags...

    @dzenno

    Will those COBB maps be made available to others? We are a few piggy-users that might be interested in controlling AFR's as well?

    Any news on meth integration for COBB or is the way forward to use a JB4 for meth and dash hijack etc?
    I don't think they'll be releasing them but who knows maybe if ppl demand them. Cobb has installed an HFS-3 aquamist kit that they're using to make meth maps and AFAIK that's what they'll be working on next...dash gauges I'm not sure about..

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Don't remember what thread I read it in but apparently they are working on meth integration with the flash.
    Correct
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 10-03-2011 at 08:25 AM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    awesome runs dz! i would give my left nut for your weather, down here Click here to enlarge anyway the results are great, so i just want to clarify, because you say:
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    My IATs were in the 95-110F range as meth wasn't working in the beginning when the dynos below were taken. With meth flowing IATs went down to about 80F. Ambient temp in the dyno room was around 70F
    'with meth flowing' indicates to me that the higher boost run (with JB4 stack) was done with meth? or is that the IAT you remember logging when meth flows, not on a dyno? because airflow will never be the same on a dyno vs real world conditions, so im not sure why the comparison if it's not on the dyno, is the only reason i ask. IAT's of 95-110 is amazing considering a 'dyno condition' (poor airflow over i/c) and an ambient of 80. when its 80 outside here, with no meth, and street conditions i see upwards of 120-130 lol and when its 90 out here it can go up to 140-150, maybe it's the humidity? meth makes a massive difference for me because of where i live. but i use a much higher water mix (than people up north should) in order to drop temps to near ambient. so it seems to me that because of your conditions, meth's impact will be less felt, unless you run 100% meth for the increased octane benefit and increase the timing up top. anyway, to sum up, i believe you're accurate when you say you should hit 470+ pump only, imo because of your awesome weather conditions, cant wait for winter (for me and for you)! Oh! and thanks for posting a stock boost curve, was that run done this same day? or was it done in the past? RB turbos at stock boost i assume? or stock turbos?
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    Wow that's so good I almost don't believe it! Congrats!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    awesome runs dz! i would give my left nut for your weather, down here Click here to enlarge anyway the results are great, so i just want to clarify, because you say:


    'with meth flowing' indicates to me that the higher boost run (with JB4 stack) was done with meth? or is that the IAT you remember logging when meth flows, not on a dyno? because airflow will never be the same on a dyno vs real world conditions, so im not sure why the comparison if it's not on the dyno, is the only reason i ask. IAT's of 95-110 is amazing considering a 'dyno condition' (poor airflow over i/c) and an ambient of 80. when its 80 outside here, with no meth, and street conditions i see upwards of 120-130 lol and when its 90 out here it can go up to 140-150, maybe it's the humidity? meth makes a massive difference for me because of where i live. but i use a much higher water mix (than people up north should) in order to drop temps to near ambient. so it seems to me that because of your conditions, meth's impact will be less felt, unless you run 100% meth for the increased octane benefit and increase the timing up top. anyway, to sum up, i believe you're accurate when you say you should hit 470+ pump only, imo because of your awesome weather conditions, cant wait for winter (for me and for you)! Oh! and thanks for posting a stock boost curve, was that run done this same day? or was it done in the past? RB turbos at stock boost i assume? or stock turbos?
    My very first pull on the dyno had meth flowing and then it wouldn't flow anymore until the very end when I realized that I could change my meth controller to activate NOT using boost but by using voltage and me just applying 12v to the blue wire on the controller to get it going while the shop's dyno operator drove the car...The car started out at around 80F IAT without meth flowing and went up to about 110F without meth flowing and in that timespan the above runs were done...

    In terms of run 007 that was one of my first dynos in that shop and that was FBO, same pump 94 gas on stock turbos and stock boost...So far I've never done a baseline with the RB turbos but that doesn't matter to me...bone stock car baseline for my car done at another shop and it put down 262whp/270wtq on a Dynojet
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Wow that's so good I almost don't believe it! Congrats!!
    LOL not bad eh? Click here to enlarge

    I just realized looking at the graph that with all the mods the car picked up 250-260whp up top over the stock setup on PUMP gas! Click here to enlarge N54 is such a beast man
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    The car started out at around 80F IAT without meth flowing and went up to about 110F without meth flowing and in that timespan the above runs were done...
    this is just what rocks my socks... that's an unbelievably low IAT increase for a dyno scenario. i cannot even tell you how high IAT's would get without meth here in sunny Miami on a dyno in a hot ass, humid room. you guys got it good up in Canada! i didn't mean to call you out or make you feel like i'm accusing you of anything, just wanted to clarify. thanks for the info on the stock run, so from what i can gather, RB turbos lag in full spool time by ~1k rpm? not too bad at all, who's below 3.5k rpm anyway in a race scenario! cant wait for more from you dz, thanks for the consistent updates and speedy replies, as usual.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    this is just what rocks my socks... that's an unbelievably low IAT increase for a dyno scenario. i cannot even tell you how high IAT's would get without meth here in sunny Miami on a dyno in a hot ass, humid room. you guys got it good up in Canada! i didn't mean to call you out or make you feel like i'm accusing you of anything, just wanted to clarify. thanks for the info on the stock run, so from what i can gather, RB turbos lag in full spool time by ~1k rpm? not too bad at all, who's below 3.5k rpm anyway in a race scenario! cant wait for more from you dz, thanks for the consistent updates and speedy replies, as usual.
    Click here to enlarge no worries man..in terms of spool there really isn't much of a change, don't look at the graphs above to compare that part of it as those runs above weren't started at 1900rpm...from what I've seen there's virtually no difference spool wise that you can actually feel but next time I'll have the dyno operator start recording the runs down at 2k...also depends a lot on how you set your boost curve obviously

    what I'd like to investigate next is how to get torque to hold and not start falling up top...first thing will be to upgrade my jb4 board to 12ohm and set boost flat to 19psi to redline and see how it tapers...then I've been debating on this little AFE spacer thingy that no one on the stock turbos setup found to be useful but it might actually find some use at 19-20psi up there with RBs...we'll see, i'm enjoying my setup finally but never stop tinkering Click here to enlarge

    It might be necessary to port the head to accomplish this but that remains to be seen and I'm waiting for at least one positive review before touching that part..i don't need another expensive mod on my car until this setup is maxed on race gas+meth
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    I'd be surprised if it's even a full 1k rpm lag in spool. Starting RPM probably is more of a factor in comparing those charts. But yeah even if it's 1k rpm that much more power by 3500rpm (100whp/100+ftlb) is very good. There are even fair gains at 3k rpm.

    Some controlled lag testing and comparisons would definitely be fun though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    I'd be surprised if it's even a full 1k rpm lag in spool. Starting RPM probably is more of a factor in comparing those charts. But yeah even if it's 1k rpm that much more power by 3500rpm (100whp/100+ftlb) is very good. There are even fair gains at 3k rpm.

    Some controlled lag testing and comparisons would definitely be fun though.
    Not so much...i'd rather drive Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    So fueling isnt as much of an issue as we orginally thought? Those number are real nice considering no meth/race gas. Does the cobb offer more control over fueling then jb4/procede. Are you using the jb4 at all besides addding boost? Real interested what a stock turbo fbo pump gas cobb dyno would put out.

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    great stuff. id like to see std though, for on comparo.. also, you can email me drf files to overlay

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    Was everyone just afraid to run anything higher than 16psi in the past on just pump gas? This kind of proves otherwise.. Maybe I should try turning up my boost a little and see what happens, will wait for cooler weather though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 335ili Click here to enlarge
    So fueling isnt as much of an issue as we orginally thought? Those number are real nice considering no meth/race gas. Does the cobb offer more control over fueling then jb4/procede. Are you using the jb4 at all besides addding boost? Real interested what a stock turbo fbo pump gas cobb dyno would put out.
    JB4's sole purpose in this setup is to deliver boost when meth is there...all user adjustable fuel settings are at zero

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    great stuff. id like to see std though, for on comparo.. also, you can email me drf files to overlay
    sure, sent you the DRFs, have fun..numbers are pretty much the same...the one run that has a difference between the UNCORRECTED and STD was near the end when I eventually figured out that I could manually trigger meth and there was race gas in the car at that point but it misfired on me up top near 6500rpm as the base flash map that I ran was the off the shelf Stage2+ map that doesn't have misfire detection turned off Click here to enlarge but on that run uncorrected was also aroun 471 while STD showed 481...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Malaka1 Click here to enlarge
    Was everyone just afraid to run anything higher than 16psi in the past on just pump gas? This kind of proves otherwise.. Maybe I should try turning up my boost a little and see what happens, will wait for cooler weather though.
    I wouldn't just turn up boost like that...make sure you now what you're doing there bud, don't blow up that motor by just cranking boost up without considering everything else (i.e. octane + meth + ignition advance + AFR)...the above took a while to setup
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    what I'd like to investigate next is how to get torque to hold and not start falling up top...first thing will be to upgrade my jb4 board to 12ohm and set boost flat to 19psi to redline and see how it tapers...
    for sure get that boost to hold...what about cams?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    for sure get that boost to hold...what about cams?
    Nothing officially available
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Malaka1 Click here to enlarge
    Was everyone just afraid to run anything higher than 16psi in the past on just pump gas? This kind of proves otherwise.. Maybe I should try turning up my boost a little and see what happens, will wait for cooler weather though.
    If you don't have the CPS module in there to limit advance the DME may make you regret it. But locking say 3-4 degrees out of the DME I've had many customers run 16psi large turbos on pump gas.

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