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  1. #26
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    flying X5, that family was full of BS. i dont agree with sykes often, but i do now. im also E6, with over 10yrs, off base. as for the E7, there would be a reason he gets paryial and not full, like his wife is military as well, or he was TCS not PCS or COADOS, ect.. even then, perdiem at even $68/day as im sure he was getting, is plenty.

    I agree with your original points of 2 seperate instances though. your military example holds no water with me though. and there are classes for soldiers, whether active, reserve or NG. Its on the soldier to do what he needs to do. and going beyond that, if you cant afford kids, DONT HAVE THEM! Life may not be easy for military, but retards exist in every facet.

    I went $20K in debt when i came home from the Invasion in '03 (E3)cause i had cash but used credit cause it was faster, then spent the cash. went back in 05 (E4) just to make $ to pay it off.. came home and did the same damn thing. then i got out, joined army, deployed again (E6), but this time i paid off all my and my wifes debt $50k total approx. and then bought this car. military is supposed to be respected for their service but maturity an acccountability as well. a man that spends his money on a flatscreen, xbox and 20" rims instead of paying to supprt the family is a disgrace. but its in no way the governments fault

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Investment made into most industries is done to increase production, or distribution while decreasing labor costs. If you seriously are buying the GOP talking point that the wealthy create jobs, you are as clueless as the rest of them. Capitalism by its very nature is the pursuit of profit which in the age of technology means less jobs and more automation. The basic statistics speak for themselves. All one needs to do is look at income disparity and social mobility for the past 30 years. You guys do know what social mobility is right? We are ranked below most industrialized nations. Social mobility is almost two times greater in Canada lol.. You would have a better chance of achieving the American dream there.

    Here is some light reading.. http://www.economicmobility.org/asse...ChapterIII.pdf

    I have not made an investment in several years that created any jobs. Quite the contrary, my best returns have been helping companies find ways to reduce labor costs and expand overseas. CEO's are driven to please shareholders, as an investor I'm only interested in seeing net tangible assets grow and earnings per share increase. I could care less if jobs are created. Most investments I've recently been involved in are Companies looking to expand operations into Asia to take advantage of the growing middle class in those economies. There really isn't much money to be made in domestic investment. The top 1% are making their money investing abroad, just because they are incorporated in the U.S. doesn't mean they help make American jobs.

    You are missing the point. I am saying that when you tax the rich MORE, they spend less on their hobbies.

    I had 4 big time customers when I was at Rudtners. When the market crashed I lost 3 of them as their profits dropped off so much that their hobbies had to take a back burner....or sell the projects to recover some $$$. Some of my customers came back, but when Obama changed the rules up whoever had money decided to hold onto it instead of spending it with us...no projects means less income to the shop, and means less $ in my pocket in the long run.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I agree with your original points of 2 seperate instances though. your military example holds no water with me though. and there are classes for soldiers, whether active, reserve or NG. Its on the soldier to do what he needs to do.
    It's on the soldier if his chain of command is letting him or her know that these classes exist. That's were the root of the problem is, the chain of command in some of these units is not looking out for the soldiers... Either because the chain of command doesn't care, or doesn't know about these resources that are available to them (or the soldiers). I don't think it's that they don't know, they just don't care. More over, it's sad that under my Brigade we have a Financial Company and not once have they drilled at our armory to provide classes on how to create a budget, or how to find/seek financial help.
    The above is more of a training failure, but that's besides the point... Now that I'm thinking, I think I will discuss this with the 1SG of that unit and see what he thinks...
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not saying the Government is COMPLETELY at fault... But some basic financial classes would go a LONG way to helping these soldiers survive on what they get paid. The government should at least attempt to provide financial classes for soldiers, show them how to create a budget, give them the tools to survive financially.
    Personally, I think people who earned the right to a little government assistance by putting their lives on the line for the government in the first place should be first on the food chain regarding government aid. Yes, perhaps they should educate them better regarding how to spend wisely and so forth but some people will never learn. There is an element of personal responsibility but there is also a problem with this country not caring all too much for their veterans.

    How the hell can some low life piece of crap (druggie, bum, etc.) get the same kind of welfare benefits as ex-military? At least I hope it isn't the same benefits.

  5. #30
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    That's liberals for you.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    You are missing the point. I am saying that when you tax the rich MORE, they spend less on their hobbies.
    I'm not missing the point at all. The hobbies of the rich may be your bread and butter, but the rich don't keep the economy moving, the middle class does. Without the purchasing power of the middle class, you have no economy. Our GDP is almost entirely made up from the financial services industry. That is not sustainable and we are seeing the effects on the economy as a result. You must have a strong middle class for an economy to remain stable.

    As someone who is concerned about the overall future of our Country, I would much rather see a business that caters to more wealthy clients fail, if it meant 4 other business sprung up to cater to those of lesser financial ability. It's nothing personal, it's just a matter of numbers. In the end, it would translate into more jobs and a stronger economy overall.

    I could have my taxes raised 5% and I would still have plenty of money to spend on my toys. The reason you are seeing less money spent has nothing to do with taxes and more to do with economic uncertainty and loss of capital gains. When I decide not to spend money it has nothing to do with what I pay in taxes and more to do with the potential return on my investments.

    The wealthy earn a living from capital gains.. not from income.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 07-19-2011 at 04:44 PM.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    That's liberals for you.
    Click here to enlarge It's this mentality coming from both sides that is what is hurting our Country more than anything. Please try not to be a part of the problem.

    Political party ideology is tearing this nation apart. Where are the adults?

  8. #33
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    Ron Paul gives it to both parties in most of his speeches as he has been doing for years
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge It's this mentality coming from both sides that is what is hurting our Country more than anything. Please try not to be a part of the problem.

    Political party ideology is tearing this nation apart. Where are the adults?
    I'm not trying to be. I'm conservative and there shouldn't be any 'equalness' given to a bum vs a veteran. I don't believe in obamas plan to make everyone of the same level. You are what you make of yourself in this country and I shouldn't have to give something to someone while I worked the hardest to earn it.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    I'm conservative and there shouldn't be any 'equalness' given to a bum vs a veteran. I don't believe in obamas plan to make everyone of the same level. You are what you make of yourself in this country and I shouldn't have to give something to someone while I worked the hardest to earn it.
    Hey bud, if widening income disparity and declining social mobility in the United States don't strike you as a problem, then I guess there is no point arguing facts with you. You've drank the cool-aide I suppose.

    You talk about income distribution, but obviously you don't have a clue. The facts are quite clear where the money is going. We are becoming a Banana Republic, not a Socialist Nation.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2651...anana-republic

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by ccsykes; 07-19-2011 at 09:05 PM.

  11. #36
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    "includes all families above 109K"? Im sorry, but 109k yr family i dont think is top 10%.

    correct me if im worng, but is that what the graph is saying?

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    "includes all families above 109K"? Im sorry, but 109k yr family i dont think is top 10%.

    correct me if im worng, but is that what the graph is saying?
    I'm thinking the same thing. Between my girl and I we can easily clear 110k year...that makes me the top 10% ?

  13. #38
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    the trashmen in my town make 110+ yr, that cant be what that means. if it is.. now i know why certain parties keep using those graphs to promulgate socialist agenda's Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    correct me if im worng, but is that what the graph is saying?
    It is saying that 2008 figures were "decile" and included the $109K bracket. That is the reason for the drop heading into the end of the chart at 2007. In reality, had 2008 numbers not be recorded in a decile manner, the chart would have closed higher.

    Decile - A method of splitting up a set of ranked data into 10 equally large subsections. This type of data ranking is performed as part of many academic and statistical studies in the finance field. The data may be ranked from largest to smallest values, or vice versa.

    The biggest problem is upward mobility though. I doubt you guys bothered to read the research report by Brookings?

    http://www.economicmobility.org/asse...ChapterIII.pdf

    Conclusion: The findings from cross-country research challenge the traditional view of the United States as a land with more mobility and opportunity than other countries.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    the trashmen in my town make 110+ yr, that cant be what that means. if it is.. now i know why certain parties keep using those graphs to promulgate socialist agenda's Click here to enlarge
    I find it humorous when people equate Democratic/Liberal views as Socialist. If anything today's Democrats are yesterdays moderates and Republicans have moved further right more towards the Fascist end of the spectrum.

    The data and statistics show us to be far more closer to a Banana Republic then a Socialist Nation. It might do some good for some of you to know the definitions of these terms you throw around. Regurgitating talking points from FOX or news radio makes people look more like brainless followers as opposed to critical thinkers Click here to enlarge The us versus them argument is so third grade play ground antics.

    I'm neither a liberal or conservative.. I'm a capitalist. However I am a strong advocate of personal freedom and liberty. I'm also anti-party politics.

    George Washington warned everyone in his farewell address about the dangers of party politics. I guess he was proven right lol!!

    The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty. - George Washington

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    the trashmen in my town make 110+ yr, that cant be what that means. if it is.. now i know why certain parties keep using those graphs to promulgate socialist agenda's Click here to enlarge
    +100 motha fing percent.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I find it humorous when people equate Democratic/Liberal views as Socialist. If anything today's Democrats are yesterdays moderates and Republicans have moved further right more towards the Fascist end of the spectrum.

    The data and statistics show us to be far more closer to a Banana Republic then a Socialist Nation. It might do some good for some of you to know the definitions of these terms you throw around. Regurgitating talking points from FOX or news radio makes people look more like brainless followers as opposed to critical thinkers Click here to enlarge The us versus them argument is so third grade play ground antics.

    I'm neither a liberal or conservative.. I'm a capitalist. However I am a strong advocate of personal freedom and liberty. I'm also anti-party politics.

    George Washington warned everyone in his farewell address about the dangers of party politics. I guess he was proven right lol!!

    The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty. - George Washington
    so, may i ask,and u dont have to, but as a capitalist, how did you vote in 08, and who shall u vote for in 12?

    your obviously much more educated in this than I, but your pinpoint comment of FOX and brainwashing, leads me to believe your still heavily leaned to the "democratic" side. is that a fair assumption?

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    so, may i ask,and u dont have to, but as a capitalist, how did you vote in 08, and who shall u vote for in 12?
    I voted for the first time and for Clinton in 1992 mainly because I was a Union member and that was who they were pushing. I really had no knowlege of politics at the time.

    In 1996 I didn't vote. Was too busy chasing tail.

    In 2000 I voted for Bush mainly because I am pro-gun (have a concealed handgun lisc in TX). The NRA lead a pretty decent campaign that influenced my vote. Looking back, I realize how easily influenced I was by good PR.

    In 2004 I did not vote, I was in Iraq for OIF1 and really didn't give two $#@!s about politics at the time.

    In 2008, I had a huge renewed interest in politics. Mainly because I had become quite anti-war and anti-Bush administration. I also had just started working in the finance industry and was learning more about economics etc.. I voted for Obama.

    2012? It's too early to tell. I'm not totally pleased with Obama. I thought he was going to be a true champion of reform. He hasn't been liberal enough for me. I'm currently looking closer at Ron Paul, however I'm not sure if he was elected President that he could get anything through the train wreck known as Congress. His ideas are too controversial with the Washington insiders.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    your obviously much more educated in this than I, but your pinpoint comment of FOX and brainwashing, leads me to believe your still heavily leaned to the "democratic" side. is that a fair assumption?
    I am very liberal when it comes to social issues. I don't think Government should have anything to do with my private life. I'm also anti-religious, so I tend to not like the GOP due to its association with Christian fundamentalist whack jobs. I see Democrats as the lesser evil.

    I work in PR now, mainly for the Corporate world, so I have some experience in sniffing out, or dolling out bullzhit. I simply see FOX for what it is, the Propaganda wing of the GOP. I think the White House memos from Roger Ailes proves that much.

    I don't really like any domestic news sources, but if I'm watching it, I have found CNN to be less cheesy. When I watch FOX, I fee like I'm watching tabloid junk.. not a news outlet. CNN just comes across slightly less tabloidesque. Watching FOX news is like watching an episode of Nancy Grace for me. I actually feel like I'm loosing IQ points while watching FOX.
    Last edited by ccsykes; 07-20-2011 at 10:13 PM.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    I voted for the first time and for Clinton in 1992 mainly because I was a Union member and that was who they were pushing. I really had no knowlege of politics at the time.

    In 1996 I didn't vote. Was too busy chasing tail.

    In 2000 I voted for Bush mainly because I am pro-gun (have a concealed handgun lisc in TX). The NRA lead a pretty decent campaign that influenced my vote. Looking back, I realize how easily influenced I was by good PR.

    In 2004 I did not vote, I was in Iraq for OIF1 and really didn't give two $#@!s about politics at the time.

    In 2008, I had a huge renewed interest in politics. Mainly because I had become quite anti-war and anti-Bush administration. I also had just started working in the finance industry and was learning more about economics etc.. I voted for Obama.

    2012? It's too early to tell. I'm not totally pleased with Obama. I thought he was going to be a true champion of reform. He hasn't been liberal enough for me. I'm currently looking closer at Ron Paul, however I'm not sure if he was elected President that he could get anything through the train wreck known as Congress. His ideas are too controversial with the Washington insiders.



    I am very liberal when it comes to social issues. I don't think Government should have anything to do with my private life. I'm also anti-religious, so I tend to not like the GOP due to its association with Christian fundamentalist whack jobs. I see Democrats as the lesser evil.

    I work in PR now, mainly for the Corporate world, so I have some experience in sniffing out, or dolling out bullzhit. I simply see FOX for what it is, the Propaganda wing of the GOP. I think the White House memos from Roger Ailes proves that much.

    I don't really like any domestic news sources, but if I'm watching it, I have found CNN to be less cheesy. When I watch FOX, I fee like I'm watching tabloid junk.. not a news outlet. CNN just comes across slightly less tabloidesque. Watching FOX news is like watching an episode of Nancy Grace.
    well, it seems you and I are at least in the same book, not on the same page though.. and good to know i wasnt too far off.

    wasnt '04 OIF2 though? Click here to enlarge not that your absentee vote would have been counted anyway Click here to enlarge

    Thanks for the input Click here to enlarge

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    cc- "banana republic" is a talking point you've used it twice, stop defeating yourself.
    Every true American should want a Republic it is what America WAS before we were ruined by politics and democracy. As for OIF 1/2 some dep in 03 and stayed (not everyone but some). Thank you gentlemen for your service- LM AND ccsykes. And remember the real enemy in our great country currently is laziness and entitlement! A nation of hard workers will always succeed. And if the government gets in the way....well that happened once here...we got rid of a king and hired a pres.
    I'm a libertarian for the record. And a crazy Christian nutjob or whackjob I forgot which talking point you used.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sleepr6 Click here to enlarge
    cc- "banana republic" is a talking point you've used it twice, stop defeating yourself. Every true American should want a Republic it is what America WAS before we were ruined by politics and democracy
    Please look up the definition of "Banana Republic". I'm not so sure you know what it is based on your comment.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sleepr6 Click here to enlarge
    And remember the real enemy in our great country currently is laziness and entitlement! A nation of hard workers will always succeed.
    Social mobility is in decline in the United States, haven't you heard? We are nowhere near #1 anymore. IF your not sure what that means you can look it up along with Banana Republics Click here to enlarge

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    A banana republic is a commercial enterprise for profit by collusion between the State and favoured monopolies, whereby the profits derived from private exploitation of public lands is private property, and the debts incurred are public responsibility. Such an imbalanced economy reduces the national currency to devalued paper-money, hence, the country is ineligible for international development credit and remains limited by the uneven economic development of town and country. Kleptocracy, government by thieves, features influential government employees exploiting their posts for personal gain (embezzlement, fraud, bribery, etc.), with the resultant deficit repaid by the native working people who earn money, rather than make money. Because of foreign (corporate) manipulation, the government is unaccountable to its nation, the countrys private sectorpublic sector corruption operates the banana republic, thus, the national legislature usually are for sale, and function mostly as ceremonial government.[3]
    . . . a money class fleeces the banking system, while the very trunk of the national tree is permitted to rot and crash. . . .

    Damn this all sounds like...

    Yeah I copied and pasted...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ccsykes Click here to enlarge
    Please look up the definition of "Banana Republic". I'm not so sure you know what it is based on your comment.


    Social mobility is in decline in the United States, haven't you heard? We are nowhere near #1 anymore. IF your not sure what that means you can look it up along with Banana Republics Click here to enlarge
    definition aside the term is used as a "talking point". there is a huge difference between a pseudo intellectual and someone who is educated. my point was to show you that you are doing exactly what you have criticized in others. use real language not what you think others will be intimidated by (or impressed with).

    regarding social mobility its the best point you have made so far. but saying it repeatedly doesn't make anyone see it from your POV. i agree with you but i think this is a consequence NOT of gov't. but of the masses of lazy americans who have become dependent on the gov't.

    now you are a VET so you and i will always have more in COMMON than what separates us. i'm not here to argue or belittle but i love to think and provoke thinking in others. we both know from our experiences "over there" the media cant tell us whats going on because they have no idea. and our gov't. is not our friend. its our job to educate and work to make our nation great again (and lets face it, its still the only place i want to live.)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sleepr6 Click here to enlarge
    to think and provoke thinking in others. we both know from our experiences "over there" the media cant tell us whats going on because they have no idea. and our gov't. is not our friend. its our job to educate and work to make our nation great again (and lets face it, its still the only place i want to live.)
    well put!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FLYING X5 Click here to enlarge
    Damn this all sounds like...
    It does doesn't it? Some consider it just a "talking point" though Click here to enlarge

    If the shoe fits..

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