Close

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

    Cobb N54 development + meth integration

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    i dont think so because idk how that would work. flash tuning just replaces w/e tune is in the ecu
    I'm actually working on stage 2&3 maps with COBB and one thing I can tell you is that a meth failsafe will be available that will at least match what piggies do today if not better...new updates from Cobb are really going to be awesome...one thing that can very easily be done is to hook a failsafe to say the IAT sensor going to the dme and have the signal go to 5v at the time of failure telling the dme IATs are scrorchingly high and Cobb's programming can drop both timing and boost accordingly amazingly fast...

    Another thing to keep in mind with failsafes in general is that while they do work well so far they're really not 100% reliable in all situations eg. Meth failure at 6500-7000rpm while running hot already on say 91 octane and high boost...in most cases though they're a good "peace of mind" type feature..

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    1,744
    Rep Points
    1,330.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'm actually working on stage 2&3 maps with COBB and one thing I can tell you is that a meth failsafe will be available that will at least match what piggies do today if not better...new updates from Cobb are really going to be awesome...one thing that can very easily be done is to hook a failsafe to say the IAT sensor going to the dme and have the signal go to 5v at the time of failure telling the dme IATs are scrorchingly high and Cobb's programming can drop both timing and boost accordingly amazingly fast...

    Another thing to keep in mind with failsafes in general is that while they do work well so far they're really not 100% reliable in all situations eg. Meth failure at 6500-7000rpm while running hot already on say 91 octane and high boost...in most cases though they're a good "peace of mind" type feature..
    I am very interested to see what cobb does with methanol injection.
    Click here to enlarge


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'm actually working on stage 2&3 maps with COBB and one thing I can tell you is that a meth failsafe will be available that will at least match what piggies do today if not better...new updates from Cobb are really going to be awesome...one thing that can very easily be done is to hook a failsafe to say the IAT sensor going to the dme and have the signal go to 5v at the time of failure telling the dme IATs are scrorchingly high and Cobb's programming can drop both timing and boost accordingly amazingly fast...

    Another thing to keep in mind with failsafes in general is that while they do work well so far they're really not 100% reliable in all situations eg. Meth failure at 6500-7000rpm while running hot already on say 91 octane and high boost...in most cases though they're a good "peace of mind" type feature..
    Very nice, thanks for the update. You been talking with Rob Irish over at Cobb?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    83
    Rep Points
    42.4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I'm actually working on stage 2&3 maps with COBB and one thing I can tell you is that a meth failsafe will be available that will at least match what piggies do today if not better...new updates from Cobb are really going to be awesome...one thing that can very easily be done is to hook a failsafe to say the IAT sensor going to the dme and have the signal go to 5v at the time of failure telling the dme IATs are scrorchingly high and Cobb's programming can drop both timing and boost accordingly amazingly fast...

    Another thing to keep in mind with failsafes in general is that while they do work well so far they're really not 100% reliable in all situations eg. Meth failure at 6500-7000rpm while running hot already on say 91 octane and high boost...in most cases though they're a good "peace of mind" type feature..
    If this comes out I will defiantly be switching to Cobb I have heard great things about the drivability of these.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,163
    Rep Points
    31,308.2
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Deserved its own thread.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Very nice, thanks for the update. You been talking with Rob Irish over at Cobb?
    Yes, Rob is great!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Yes, Rob is great!
    Yeah he is cool guy. He knows what the hell he is doing. Cobb's bmw guru.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    espaņa
    Posts
    749
    Rep Points
    819.7
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Last edited by carcars; 07-04-2011 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Yeah he is cool guy. He knows what the hell he is doing. Cobb's bmw guru.
    Oh yeah...they've actually added tuning for the VANOS and eliminated the so called vanos changeover 4300-4400rpm...we've always been told that this this a changeover event for VANOS and many piggies have tuned with boost/CPS around it....what's amazing about flashes is that they basically change VANOS parameters and other related params and basically tune it out at the DME level...their datalogging is also very very elaborate as I've mentioned before logging at 1 event every 4-8ms from what I see in the logs which is about 125-250 samples/sec!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    26
    Rep Points
    60.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Sounds interesting for the flash tuners!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    .one thing that can very easily be done is to hook a failsafe to say the IAT sensor going to the dme and have the signal go to 5v at the time of failure telling the dme IATs are scrorchingly high and Cobb's programming can drop both timing and boost accordingly amazingly fast...
    Doesn't boost already adjust to the IATs?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    what's amazing about flashes is that they basically change VANOS parameters and other related params and basically tune it out at the DME level.
    Can you elaborate on this a bit? Isn't there still a variable VANOS changeover? Can you post a log or experience about what end-results you have noticed?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54-5&3 Click here to enlarge
    Doesn't boost already adjust to the IATs?
    it does but not in a way where it would drop boost enough...or timing for that matter...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54-5&3 Click here to enlarge
    Can you elaborate on this a bit? Isn't there still a variable VANOS changeover? Can you post a log or experience about what end-results you have noticed?
    Well, I can't post datalogs as we're going through ALPHA firmware and testing but here's a little feedback on VANOS from Cobb which I found very informative:

    "VANOS is a continually varying system that really does not have a specific change over point. The intake and exhaust tables have the dip you see built into them. After spending a little time on the dyno playing with VANOS, I found removing that dip improved power"

    Rob and the rest of the guys at Cobb are really amazing BMW gurus Click here to enlarge I really thought I knew quite a bit about the N54 tuning but seeing some new things from the DME flash perspective really opens up a totally different side of it and shows you how BMW engineers saw this engine being tuned...really fancy cool stuff

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,872.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I've used the IAT input technique for tuning in a meth failsafe on LS1 motors. It's OK and much better than nothing. It does require a smart controller where you can program in a meth flow window like the CMGS/VC2. But meth safety is often misunderstood. Cutting boost/timing if meth drops is only half of the equation. The other half is ensuring you don't raise boost/timing in the first place until meth is fully flowing. Progressive methanol mapping like we do with the piggybacks is really the ultimate solution to both. Progressive mapping may be possible with flash tuning if they can locate an extra I/O on the DME or hijack and retask one that is not very important.

    The other real advancement being made now in both piggyback camps is how meth is controlled. On the JB4 front with the FSB the control is now up to the JB4 and can operate beyond the basic boost line / 8-12psi algorithm. For example the user can enable/disable meth flow with their map selection, we can cut meth if traction control kicks on, cut meth during shifts, reduce flow dynamically when its not needed, etc.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I've used the IAT input technique for tuning in a meth failsafe on LS1 motors. It's OK and much better than nothing. It does require a smart controller where you can program in a meth flow window like the CMGS/VC2. But meth safety is often misunderstood. Cutting boost/timing if meth drops is only half of the equation. The other half is ensuring you don't raise boost/timing in the first place until meth is fully flowing. Progressive methanol mapping like we do with the piggybacks is really the ultimate solution to both. Progressive mapping may be possible with flash tuning if they can locate an extra I/O on the DME or hijack and retask one that is not very important.
    One thing to realize is that what I described for meth flow safety/integration IS NOT what COBB is planning or doing here...it was just an idea I personally had which would work just as well as any piggyback meth "safety"...in terms of a "smart" controller, in the flash case, that controller is the DME and you can program or reprogram any routine to your liking, obviously depending on what path you take for it...stock routine is to drop timing about 4-5 degrees for peak IATs (130C)...in the end there's nothing preventing a flash from using an unused input and attaching a routine to it for meth progressive mapping...as I said this is still in ALPHA but so far its looking great...

    P.S. Terry, the IAT input technique I actually read up on in the LS1 forum lol

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Can you shed any light on what stage 2 maps will entail in terms of hardware requirements? I'm hoping my AR downpipes and HPF FMIC will be sufficient to run stage 2 maps. Also... any idea of when they'll be ready for release? I know Cobb doesn't like to give a time frame... but if you could maybe give us some sort of idea that'd be awesome!

    Also, I like the data logging features currently offered but I really wish more parameters could be monitored and logged... do you know if any improvements have been made?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    I can't speak to timelines and I honestly don't know them...datalogging has already been majorly expanded to contain many parameters not ever offered on the piggies...the greatest part about them is you can log what the dme is "requesting" from the car as well as what the car is actually doing/providing...really blew me away..

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    any idea about hardware required? do you "think" that DPs and upgraded IC is sufficient for stage 2?!
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    I'd think so yes but don't quote me on it

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    32
    Rep Points
    95.9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Stage 1 is pretty conservative. I'd imagine intake and race gas could handle stage 2
    Retired: 2008 e92 - 388whp, 423 wtrq
    New Toy: N54/DCT

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Not going to hold you, or Cobb, to that... just needed some sort of third-party affirmation that my current mods alone would be enough for stage 2 maps!
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Jersey City
    Posts
    3,857
    Rep Points
    3,642.6
    Mentioned
    74 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    37


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kamal Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge Not going to hold you, or Cobb, to that... just needed some sort of third-party affirmation that my current mods alone would be enough for stage 2 maps!
    You will have to wait and see. Just a FYI my Stg 2 GIAC flash requires a Intake, Dp's, intercooler, and cat back exhaust.

    I would be suprised if the cobb stg 2 didn't follow the same path but lets see.

    *I have had no conversations with Cobb, just provided some input from the GIAC flash camp*

    I am anxious to see how the Cobb stg2 performs!
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    well I've got a full exhaust as well as the DPs... not really a fan/believer of the dual cone intake systems, but I guess $100 isn't much to upgrade to stage 2 if that's what it requires. In the past, most Cobb stage 2 maps have required turbo back exhausts and nothing else... so lets see what happens!
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,527
    Rep Points
    1,175.6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Reputation: Yes | No
    You need an intercooler for sure.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    yea... I've got that too, HPF.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kamal Click here to enlarge
    any idea about hardware required? do you "think" that DPs and upgraded IC is sufficient for stage 2?!
    Not sure how reliable this info is, someone posted this on another forum.

    Stage 2 - "turboback" exhaust
    Stage 2 + - fmic and turboback exhaust

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    StL/CoMO
    Posts
    39
    Rep Points
    34.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Not sure how reliable this info is, someone posted this on another forum.

    Stage 2 - "turboback" exhaust
    Stage 2 + - fmic and turboback exhaust
    Yea that's what they usually require... I had posted a similar question in Cobb's forum and the response I got was this:

    "We totally understand! However, until we finalize these calibrations, we don't want to give you information that could turn out to be false or less than complete. In the past, downpipes were the only real requirement, but many of the direct injection cars are also requiring fueling upgrades etc (just as a for instance). We will let you all know when we know for sure!"
    Click here to enlarge

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •