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  1. #26
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    it shifts AUTOMATICALLY hence its an automatic transmission. a manual will not shift AUTOMATICALLY, you have to MANUALLY shift it Click here to enlarge Dual clutch transmission that could NOT shift automatically could be called manual, but this one does, so its an AUTOMATIC transmission, regardless of how many clutches

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Dual clutch transmission that could NOT shift automatically could be called manual, but this one does, so its an AUTOMATIC transmission, regardless of how many clutches
    But in manual mode it doesn't shift automatically so it should be called a manual then by your definition.

    I hope this illustrates it isn't clear cut. Anyway, a DCT isn't an automatic it's a dual clutch. Not even remotely the same thing.

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    if it CAN do it automatically, its an automatic, very clear cut you see

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Automated manual.

    Does it shift manually as well? Oh, must be a manual then by that definition.
    Sticky I'm a smg/dct fan my self but unless they add a new classification if you had to pick one they are automatic because it does have fully auto modes and doesn't require the MANAUAL engaging of a clutch or changing of gears

  5. #30
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    I agree that the video is amusing, however I really think that the guy is contradicting himself... The first M3 was pretty much a race car - a race car is meant to go around a track as fast as possible... If we are saying this is closer to the "real M" of the past (logic following that it's a better race car), shouldn't we be looking at lap times instead of tire smoke in this video? Which car is faster around a track?

    25% more torque than the V8 this car has, huh? 295 + (.25) * 295 = ~370 lb-ft of torque... Okay, if you are at WOT after an upshift - you will get 7 seconds of this amount of torque until it falls flat at 5000 RPM - meaning it adds to average power SOMETIMES for 7 seconds (no idea how many times over a race)... On a racetrack, where the M3 (or an M series) belongs, I am wondering how consistent times will be lap after lap given that the car MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have + 50 lb-ft of torque out of a given corner. I guess since us novices will always have DCT on, we shouldn't worry about this since we are driving a magical "pure M" that spins tires sometimes and other times not IF we leave DCT on in the corners? Give me a break... This isn't a test - it's nonsense.

    If you want a car that will go sideways - either car will work (regardless of transmission) - on a road course that has enough straight sections, we know the 1M is not as fast as an M3. A car with 335 HP that turns 180 degrees with DCT off is good? I don't understand this. If you have a car that "kills you" when you turn stability control off, or turns around to face oncoming traffic when you are "racing" it, I would then say that BMW missed the mark. I think we all know almost any BMW with DCT off can get out of hand if you are TRYING to get it out of hand. Shouldn't someone who claims the 1M is the "real M" after determining all of this (while basically saying the M3 is not) - who is not a "novice" (if he was, "the car DEFINITELY wouldn't be for him") understand that tossing it sideways around corners is NOT the purpose of an M? I always thought M stood for going as fast as possible in near almost any situation without sacrificing everyday drivability and reliability... It doesn't look like a super car, but it will run right with them on a good road course.

    Just because it looks cool to go sideways/create tons of tire smoke/etc. doesn't make it a "real M" - when/how often are you really going to burn through a set of 700 dollar rear tires just to do this? Wouldn't it make more sense to put this car through it's paces and make a "real" test out of it? See if BMW DID make the car more capable of going faster around a track? See if it is as trackable as an M3? See if it's handling at high speed is as good as an M3? Etc... He is completely missing the point (by not testing it "properly") of what BMW intended for the M series, he then claims that it's the new M king. I think a de-badged 335d, with it's insane amounts of torque would probably trick this guy into thinking he's driving "a real M3" more than the 1M did. I am sure its burnouts would make the 1M and the M3's look terrible, thereby making it a better M series in his eyes. (yes, sarcasm)

    I don't understand when professionals rip apart a car just because something new is out. If the 1M had a DCT transmission, it would be quicker both around a track AND in a straight line. Period. How does having a standard transmission make it a better car than one that has DCT? Is it because you can tell other people you aren't a "novice" since you can row your own gears? Seriously? Do you really think that F1 has it all wrong? These videos cause so much confusion - people think what they see on videos is factual information. When this guy is spewing this nonsense, it just adds to the misinformation on the internet. I find this annoying - I really do. I understand his attempt at humor, but come on - a 1M is not an M3 - don't try and say it's better. Yes - the car has more peak torque; he fails to mention that the total power under the curve is higher on the M3. He also fails to mention it isn't as fast in a straight line. He also fails to mention that the M3 carries 8.5 pounds per horsepower - while the 1M carries 10. He says it corners better - which might be true, but after talking nonsense (DCT is terrible - it's an automatic, the M3 isn't a true M, etc.) - how can anyone believe a word he says?

    Take both cars around different race tracks - we know what happens on a tight road course, let's see some unbiased Nurburgring times or something. Don't diminish another car just because you were lucky to test it, it's ridiculous journalism at it's finest... I love the 1M, I think it's a great setup - I just don't like the direction of this... We now have an M5 with a turbo, and it seems like the next M3 will jock a turbo. I guess there is nothing we can do but sit back and watch - but when we start to tell BMW and their customers that their new 1M is better than the M3, I don't think we'll ever get another S50, S52, S54 or S65... Ever.

    Cheers.

  6. #31
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    ^^^^ wow great post, really captures the essance of some of my feelings
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

  8. #33
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    lol, awesome video.

    3 pedals > 2 pedals, it's math bro.

  9. #34
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    That guy was a dumbass driving the PDK.....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    That guy was a dumbass driving the PDK.....
    WAIT, You don't who that is? Shame on you. EPIC FAIL







    What an insult.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    That guy was a dumbass driving the PDK.....
    really.
    I love manual transmission, but can't hide the fact PDK is faster on track too. he doesn't how to use it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by FR305 Click here to enlarge
    WAIT, You don't who that is? Shame on you. EPIC FAIL.
    LoL

    Plato is freakin great.

    He is just having a little fun with Porsche's horrible PDK lay out. The PDK is amazing, but the buttons do suck royally.

    Luckily Porsche sells a wheel with paddle shifters.

  13. #38
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Is it automated? Than it's an automatic.

    Button pressing to shift isn't doing anything manually, it's pressing a button to trigger an automated sequence.

    Certainly there's various types of automatic (torque converter, SMG, duel clutch), but all of them are automated, and therefore automatics.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Automated manual.

    Does it shift manually as well? Oh, must be a manual then by that definition.
    No third pedal. Its an auto dude... I know what your getting at... Instead of the TC shifting it uses a clutch.. but the clutch is engaged automatically by electrohydraulic means. Still an auto..

    You can manually shift a slush box... doesnt make it some manual/auto hybrid.

    My #1 problem with my C63... It doesnt come in a manual. The man in the video speaks truth... A trained driver with a manual will smoke all of you using the auto.. and its just plain boring...
    Last edited by propain; 06-21-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    No third pedal. Its an auto dude... I know what your getting at... Instead of the TC shifting it uses a clutch.. but the clutch is engaged automatically by electrohydraulic means. Still an auto..

    You can manually shift a slush box... doesnt mean its not an auto...


    My #1 problem with my C63... It doesnt come in a manual. The man in the video speaks truth... A trained driver with a manual will smoke all of you using the auto.. and its just plain boring...
    are you god or something ?

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    are you god or something ?
    LOL what?
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  18. #43
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    By manual many understand a stick by which you select the gears by positioning the stick in the respective slot. Not, as an example, pushing/pulling 1-2-3-4..., but e.g. from fifth to 2nd gear directly (not going through other gears in between). This is when it comes to the driving. Technically, under the hood, DCT has dual clutches as the funny lab guy tried to explain with his German accent, and basically technically the guy even has a point Click here to enlarge

    Have you guys driven 1M? It is pure fun. Just try it out! Not having the extra weight to carry around the corners, makes it brilliant.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    if it CAN do it automatically, its an automatic, very clear cut you see
    But if it can do it manually it isn't a manual? You can't partially interpret a definition in a way that serves your argument while dismissing aspects that weaken it.

  20. #45
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    I love the DCT,its an auto, but when manual the only thing its missing is a clutch. its still fun as $#@!. i was $#@!ng for no reason on the 2hr trip back home, just because i could..

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    Sticky I'm a smg/dct fan my self but unless they add a new classification if you had to pick one they are automatic because it does have fully auto modes and doesn't require the MANAUAL engaging of a clutch or changing of gears
    Whether it requires manual or auto engaging of the gears is an issue with software. So if someone makes a DCT with no auto mode now it is a manual? Yet the hardware is the same?

    No, it is not a manual or automatic and forcing it into either definition is asinine.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But if it can do it manually it isn't a manual? You can't partially interpret a definition in a way that serves your argument while dismissing aspects that weaken it.
    no, it atumatically en/dis-engages the clutchs, as in the driver DOES NOT have to MANUALLY do it. it does it AUTOMATICALLY- even in MANUAL MODE, it does it automatically

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I agree that the video is amusing, however I really think that the guy is contradicting himself... The first M3 was pretty much a race car - a race car is meant to go around a track as fast as possible... If we are saying this is closer to the "real M" of the past (logic following that it's a better race car), shouldn't we be looking at lap times instead of tire smoke in this video? Which car is faster around a track?

    25% more torque than the V8 this car has, huh? 295 + (.25) * 295 = ~370 lb-ft of torque... Okay, if you are at WOT after an upshift - you will get 7 seconds of this amount of torque until it falls flat at 5000 RPM - meaning it adds to average power SOMETIMES for 7 seconds (no idea how many times over a race)... On a racetrack, where the M3 (or an M series) belongs, I am wondering how consistent times will be lap after lap given that the car MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have + 50 lb-ft of torque out of a given corner. I guess since us novices will always have DCT on, we shouldn't worry about this since we are driving a magical "pure M" that spins tires sometimes and other times not IF we leave DCT on in the corners? Give me a break... This isn't a test - it's nonsense.

    If you want a car that will go sideways - either car will work (regardless of transmission) - on a road course that has enough straight sections, we know the 1M is not as fast as an M3. A car with 335 HP that turns 180 degrees with DCT off is good? I don't understand this. If you have a car that "kills you" when you turn stability control off, or turns around to face oncoming traffic when you are "racing" it, I would then say that BMW missed the mark. I think we all know almost any BMW with DCT off can get out of hand if you are TRYING to get it out of hand. Shouldn't someone who claims the 1M is the "real M" after determining all of this (while basically saying the M3 is not) - who is not a "novice" (if he was, "the car DEFINITELY wouldn't be for him") understand that tossing it sideways around corners is NOT the purpose of an M? I always thought M stood for going as fast as possible in near almost any situation without sacrificing everyday drivability and reliability... It doesn't look like a super car, but it will run right with them on a good road course.

    Just because it looks cool to go sideways/create tons of tire smoke/etc. doesn't make it a "real M" - when/how often are you really going to burn through a set of 700 dollar rear tires just to do this? Wouldn't it make more sense to put this car through it's paces and make a "real" test out of it? See if BMW DID make the car more capable of going faster around a track? See if it is as trackable as an M3? See if it's handling at high speed is as good as an M3? Etc... He is completely missing the point (by not testing it "properly") of what BMW intended for the M series, he then claims that it's the new M king. I think a de-badged 335d, with it's insane amounts of torque would probably trick this guy into thinking he's driving "a real M3" more than the 1M did. I am sure its burnouts would make the 1M and the M3's look terrible, thereby making it a better M series in his eyes. (yes, sarcasm)

    I don't understand when professionals rip apart a car just because something new is out. If the 1M had a DCT transmission, it would be quicker both around a track AND in a straight line. Period. How does having a standard transmission make it a better car than one that has DCT? Is it because you can tell other people you aren't a "novice" since you can row your own gears? Seriously? Do you really think that F1 has it all wrong? These videos cause so much confusion - people think what they see on videos is factual information. When this guy is spewing this nonsense, it just adds to the misinformation on the internet. I find this annoying - I really do. I understand his attempt at humor, but come on - a 1M is not an M3 - don't try and say it's better. Yes - the car has more peak torque; he fails to mention that the total power under the curve is higher on the M3. He also fails to mention it isn't as fast in a straight line. He also fails to mention that the M3 carries 8.5 pounds per horsepower - while the 1M carries 10. He says it corners better - which might be true, but after talking nonsense (DCT is terrible - it's an automatic, the M3 isn't a true M, etc.) - how can anyone believe a word he says?

    Take both cars around different race tracks - we know what happens on a tight road course, let's see some unbiased Nurburgring times or something. Don't diminish another car just because you were lucky to test it, it's ridiculous journalism at it's finest... I love the 1M, I think it's a great setup - I just don't like the direction of this... We now have an M5 with a turbo, and it seems like the next M3 will jock a turbo. I guess there is nothing we can do but sit back and watch - but when we start to tell BMW and their customers that their new 1M is better than the M3, I don't think we'll ever get another S50, S52, S54 or S65... Ever.

    Cheers.
    Now this is a post.

    I agree with everything you stated. The reviewer annoys me to the point I want to find him and slap him.

    The E30 M3 was great and set the standard for what an M3 should be. These 1M and E30 comparisons are idiotic. The damn 1M isn't all that much lighter than an E46 M3 and around a track even the old CSL, which is lighter, will dominate it.

    Your comments are all spot on.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Whether it requires manual or auto engaging of the gears is an issue with software. So if someone makes a DCT with no auto mode now it is a manual? Yet the hardware is the same?

    No, it is not a manual or automatic and forcing it into either definition is asinine.
    I would still consider it an auto since you dont have to engage the clutch manually. If I was forced to define it beyond that it would be a manually shifted auto. Unless you install that 3rd pedal its an auto.

    I think you would be the first to call a DCT a manual. At least its the first time ive heard it defined that way.

    Semi-Auto
    Automated Manual
    Automantic Manual

    Sure...
    Tune only 60-130: 8.57
    Tune only 1/4 mile record: 11.531 @ 122.12



  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
    I would still consider it an auto since you dont have to engage the clutch manually. If I was forced to define it beyond that it would be a manually shifted auto. Unless you install that 3rd pedal its an auto.
    The E46 M3 uses the manual gearbox for the SMG only that the clutch is hydraulically actuated. EXACT SAME THING. Yet, you are telling me having no clutch pedal makes it an automatic even though it is a manual gearbox? How does this make any sense?

    I'm not calling the DCT a manual. I'm calling the DCT a DCT.

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