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Thread: JB4?

  1. #1
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    JB4?

    I figured I would post on these boards, everybody is so Procede or COBB biased on E90...
    I have been running COBB for almost 2 months now. I love the tune, and I love the power!
    COBB 93 octane pulls just slightly on a JB4 map 2Click here to enlarge

    However, since I will be running full bolt ons including a complete straight pipe exhaust I really would like to take full advantage of those things this summer, rather then waiting for cobb to come out with stage 2...

    People on E90 say piggy backs are crap, they only increase boost and timing but truly don't tune your car appropriately for all parameters ETC...
    What can JB4 truly do for me? How will it run.
    Does Map 2 still adjust to your mods? I remember someone told me you have to do several pulls fro it to adjust? Would it be possible to increase boost slightly over and above map 2 since I have straight pipes and FMIC, BOV, Charge pipe, DCI intake catless DP's etc?

    Will I need to log regularily? I'm not computer savvy or map savvy, I was hoping I could run the map which would give me the most power and forget about it.

    Hows the self adjusting tune at altitude?

    What numbers can I expect on a dyno jet with the following mods
    AFE DCI
    AA Catless DP's
    AMS Intercooler
    ER Charge pipe
    Tial Q Blow off valve

    2.5" Straight pipe exhaust, * each pipe is turbo back *

    I'm on the fence about selling COBB and purchasing JB-4
    I want to make sure my car runs safely, however I would really like to hit that 400+ whp mark.. My car is starting to feel slow to me, and I just spent 2500 on additional bolt ons * not including instillation *

    Future mods ----> I don't plan on ever running meth... I will purchase larger turbos next year, possibly RB


    With the maps, are they regularily being updated?


    I know this has been covered a thousand times.. I did some searches and found some good info / some bad info..
    Please point out as much as you can about JB4, how the power curve is, how logs have been, the kind of power people have seen with FBO minus meth.

    Help me decide please!!!!!

    How does Map 2 work with the FBO, will I see more power running that with self tuning map at my altitude, can I increase boost slightly or safely with my mods ETC


    Lets throw as much info as possible into this thread.. I know lots of other users have my same question

    Answer away

    Thanks guys!

    I really appreciate it!
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    Wow, not sure what to say. I'm running a JB4 with DCIs, and FMIC(soon as I get some time >_<) - map 1 for me works great, I have yet to touch maps 2-4 or 6,7.
    Map 5 is the auto-tune map and tunes according to your mods iirc. I'm sure terry can chime in here and help Click here to enlarge

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    I'm hoping Terry reads my thread.
    My biggest question hidden in all of that chaos is the following

    How does map 2 adjust to ensure your car takes full advantage from your bolt ons vs someone who just has a DCI?
    Does it still auto adjust to your tunes but with set PSI parameters? How will the system increase PSI / Timing for a FBO vehicle if it is a pre determined tune map? Bigup runs it with a DCI And has very clean logs.. I want to ensure if I run it it gives me stronger boost and better timing since I'll have all of the mods listed above.

    That is my main question..
    I want to stay away from the auto tuning map because at 3700 feet elevation I know I will be underrated and over conservative.

    I especially want to take advantage of my straight pipe exhaust!
    Most users running FBO have stock exhausts still, or aftermarket exhausts. I know for a fact my straight pipes and separate independent 2.5" stainless steel piping freed up much more back pressure then what some users originally anticipated.
    It caused my COBB to go from peaking at 16.3PSI to 13.9PSI in order to hit the same load. This was JUST from the straight pipes, while still running stock cats.

    I'm going to dyno with Bigup in the next month.
    Lets set a pact Jerry to give my 335i the most WHP safely and reliably out of any FBO bimmers without meth. We can then show the community what JB4 can truly do!

    I don't track my car, only drive spiritedly a few times a week so I'm sure I can go a little more aggressive, during the day I'm highway driving like a granny to conserve gas to and from work.
    Last edited by E90Vader; 06-04-2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: Additional information.
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    **** MODS **** Please move this to 3 series... I did not realize that section existed when I've been posting on the N54 section.
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    This is N54 relevant Click here to enlarge No need to move.

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    Okay, then Answer away guys!
    I'd like to know how each map works, how the bolt ons benefit, what the potential is ETC.
    I was cholked when I read about COBB and the load targets.. My straight pipes took away almost 2.5psi of boost and I got the exactly same power results.. I bet when I install FBO I will run 12PSI tops with the same hp.. I'd rather have that peak of 16PSI back, now that it is even SAFER on my car since I have FBO.

    I can tell you this... if COBB feels 16PSI peak down to 14PSI at red line is safe on a stock car, then i sure as hell can run those same parameters with FBO. With FBO and those same PSI Figures we should all see well over 400whp on a dynojet.
    Lets adjust a JB4 map to hit those figures.

    This works on paper, so please correct me if I'm wrong and advise why?
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    Do you have any logs from the COBB Tune?

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    You can adjust map 1 to your liking.
    The boost decrease is huge for it to be only due to the decreased back pressure. Are you sure the weather, heatsoak etc were the same? Cats are way more restrictive than mufflers.

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    I will have FBO as stated above plus straight pipes when I in stall COBB.
    With COBB, if heat soak is evident the PSI goes UP in order to hit the same load targets.

    Here is a link to my COBB thread * it has all of my issues with PSI difference, including all logs
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535174

    Either way I'm not tune savvy yet.. I'd love to learn, but in the mean time I want something that is already pre set.

    The way I look at it is as follows * question for Terry as well *
    If COBB is able to peak boost at 16PSI then taper down to 14 on a stock car, why can't JB4 do the same thing? If JB4 peaking at 14.5PSI keeps up to COBB which peaks at 16PSI, then JB4 peaking at 16PSI should destroy it!

    Furthermore, if COBB can peak at 16psi then taper to 14psi for a stock car as mentioned above, then I sure as hell feel JB4 can hit those same parameters if the users vehicle has FBO

    These settings would be more aggressive then the 14.5psi map2, however should still be safe for our vehicles * as tested extensively by cob * and would easily push over 420 on the dyno.. * in theory *
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Vader Click here to enlarge
    **** MODS **** Please move this to 3 series... I did not realize that section existed when I've been posting on the N54 section.
    This is the right section for it, this is an N54 related question. Engine questions go in engine sections, body/chassis questions in the section that corresponds to them.

    I'm sure Terry will get to your questions in the morning.

  11. #11
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    I still have a feeling you will eventually want meth, and will be running high boost Click here to enlarge

    JB4 + FBO + Meth = $#@!ing batmobile!

    .. and if you do that, you'll need the hardware to read meth flow, and adjust boost accordingly. AFAIK, No flash can do that, unless they start selling an extra piece of kit (at that point, you may as well just use a piggy !).
    ~

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    Your at elevation so im not sure what exactly changes. BUT if Cobb had you at 16 peak tapered to 14 psi, then you can recreate that same setting im map 6, which is completley custom boost mapping, something no ther tune offers yet, and I love it. For example, its easy for me to adjust to how i want boost to come in, where i want more boost, and where i dont want it for my specific results. I was trying to help a V5 guy yesterday at the track, and saw his 1/8 mph was very low so i told him to add a bit of boost down low, but keep what he has up top since it was 17 psi. he had no idea what i was talking about. thats when i realized how lucky JB4'ers are Click here to enlarge

    anyway. in the beginning, your gonna have to do a bit of loggin to see you afr and timing are all in check. since cobb does all that for you, even though you ran 16psi, your timing could be way down, and even though your jb4 psi was 14.5 ish, you may be faster with that and more timing. its all a balance. Im inlcined to think that your probably faster at maybe 15 psi on jb4 then you are at 16 psi on cobb. but its all octane dependend, and then your elevation comes into play as well. so like i said, to dial in your specific car, may take a few tries. but this is the beauty of the piggies, and jb4 specifically, that you can dial in what you want.

    id say throw it in, and do a conservative map 6 and see how everything goes

  13. #13
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    If you want performance just get meth. We're working on a cool engine bay mount setup if you're afraid of the install. Click here to enlarge

  14. #14
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    Now with map 6 is the only thing adjustable the boost? Can anyone explain or show me a link how I go about adjusting it myself? If I adjust the boost, will anything automatically adjust timing / AFR to ensure those are both running clean with my increased boost? Where could I study exactly when the boost should kick in, what RPM it should hit 15 or 15.5 and when it should taper to 14 or 13.5?
    I am not a tuning expert.. I knew nothing about tunes 2 months ago, so I don't know if I'm savvy enough to safely set a custom map. I would LOVE to do so, since I feel I can peak higher then 14.5 safely with my list of mods, but I don't want to blow up my car...
    Now why did my buddy have to do several pulls on JB4 to adjust to his Map 2. I know the PSI is set, but are the other parameters still auto tuning to compensate and adjust to mods?


    ---> I would possibly like meth, but I don't want to spent 1000 at some shop installing it... and I have no Idea how to run the cables through my trunk, under my car, into my engine safely..
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    The custom tuning is intended for experienced tuners. Some variables like boost control will auto learn and optimize during pulls.

    Meth installs are pretty easy. Our new engine bay mount kit even easier. Hardest part is the meth elbow for the nozzle.

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    So boost may change on map 2 depending on my mods? it just won't peak above 14.5
    Is a peak of 16 safe for a FBO car without meth? COBB hits 16 for a stock car...

    I would only consider an engine mount kit if it is seperate from the windshield washer tank.. I don't want to touch my winshield wipers.
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

  17. #17
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    Map 2 will always target 14.5 psi. Which is suggested for your mods. Wipers work normally with a WW meth kit.

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    I'm not sure why Cobb needs to run all the way up to 16.5 PSI to achieve similar results to a 14.5 PSI JB4 tune.

    When I ran against Vader, he pulled on me .. but that appeared to be mostly due to a major shift bog I was getting 3>4. Since I had my HPFP replaced, I have not experienced the bog again.

    We will run again this weekend to see if my Map 2 JB4 can now hang with the Cobb 93 map.

    Terry, I think the ultimate question here is .. will Vader's soon to be FBO car, run significantly faster on JB4 Map 2, versus his original Cobb 93 intake-only car?
    ~

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    Terry, I meant I don't want to have to mix meth and water and have a seperate tank * same size as my windhsield washer tank * to ensure I fill it up with a 50/50 mix. I'd like to leave it alone all together.

    I know you say 14.5psi, but COBB was completely safe on my stock car peaking at 16PSI, so why can't JB4 safely peak at 16psi, "Especially if the user is running FBO!?
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

  20. #20
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    The Cobb tuning out of the box is overly aggressive at around 15psi on average. There isn't much room for them to add more power on pump gas. I would expect the Cobb mapping to be on par with jb4 map 2 under most circumstances. The jb4 will probably better take advantage of the mods though.

    Both cars are manual correct? Line em up and see if they have similar mods. Click here to enlarge

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    Vader is auto, I'm manual.

    I'm a decent manual driver though .. when the car doesn't bog .. LOL I think I'm fine now with the new pump. Will know for sure when we run.

    I killed a guy at my work who runs a 400+ HP mustang (closer to 450) from a dig .. he's auto.
    ~

  22. #22
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    My car is automatic.
    If My car with COBB stage 1, runs the same boost as JB4, I won't see any additional gains when I install my bolt on...?
    Bolt ons will bump the COBB psi from 16 to 14, based on the requirements of 14psi to hit the same load targets or around 400bhp.

    I want to customize a JB4 map to reflect an average boost of 15psi sustained with my FBO, otherwise I won't hit 400whp.. and my mods won't be fully utilized.
    Can you work with me a little bit as far as custom maps go, how I should look at starting, I.e when boost should come on, how much ETC
    I am happy to use my FBO car * with straight pipes * to show other users the true potential of JB4 without even adding meth.
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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    Re meth I think you may just be confused on how it works. It comes in a bottle premixed like washer fluid and you pour it in as needed.

    Re boost it's a details oriented thing. Too much to type on this iPhone for sure! Click here to enlarge But the absolute target model we use is superior to the load targeting like we had before with the jb3 and what Cobb uses today.

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    Automatics have a 1-2 car advantage so find another auto jb4 to race. Or just swap tunes let em adapt and go at it!

    You can custom tune a map 6 but map 2 will probably work great for you out of the box. You can make 400rw on 93 but it's a little sketchy. Octane is the major limiting factor for all tunes. 380rw is a more realistic goal FBO with pump gas. 420 with a mild meth setup.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 06-04-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  25. #25
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    I don't know if I can by * pre mixed * true meth with a 50/50 mixture here in town.. I'd have to mix it myself would I not?
    As far as the boost etc
    My concern is that if I can't increase boost much over a stock map, I won't see gains from the 3K I just spent on additional bolt ons..
    Does the JB4 map 2, hold higher boost consistantly then COBB? Maybe I should re-create a cobb map with the JB4 map 6 and see how that goes.
    If you want later tonight when you have time time Jerry feel free to send me a PM or email me
    georgepalmer@live.com

    I'd like to understand more about this. I'm also good friends with Bigup, so we'll be doing the testing together!
    I have a mac... so I can only log when I'm with Bigup using his lap top.


    Any dynos showing JB4 * full bolt ons * plus aftermarket or straight pipe exhaust without meth? I'd really hope to hit the 400whp mark.
    2007 E90 335i | Saphire Black Metallic | Luxury,Premium, Nav
    FBO + JB4Click here to enlarge

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