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    Egypt opens the border to Palestinians

    Major development, those people at least now aren't cut off from everything. Israel probably isn't too happy about it: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110528/...d5cHRwZXJtYW5l

    RAFAH, Gaza Strip After four years, Egypt on Saturday permanently opened the Gaza Strip's main gateway to the outside world, bringing long-awaited relief to the territory's Palestinian population and a significant achievement for the area's ruling Hamas militant group.

    The reopening of the Rafah border crossing eases an Egyptian blockade of Gaza that has prevented the vast majority of the densely populated area's 1.5 million people from being able to travel abroad. The closure, along with an Israeli blockade of its borders with Gaza, has fueled an economic crisis in the territory.

    But Saturday's move also raises Israeli fears that militants will be able to move freely in and out of Gaza.

    Highlighting those fears, the Israeli army said militants from inside Gaza fired a mortar shell into southern Israel overnight. There were no injuries, and Israel did not respond.

    Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade after Hamas seized control of Gaza in June 2007. The closure, which also included tight Israeli restrictions at its cargo crossings with Gaza and a naval blockade, was meant to weaken Hamas, an Islamic militant group that opposes peace with Israel.

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    Good now lets hope they can control themselves, and not start firing into Israel. They do not want a rewind of 1967.
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    it won't last too long, probably Israel tries to close the gates no matter how.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    it won't last too long, probably Israel tries to close the gates no matter how.
    I don't think they will unless attacks pick up.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    I don't think they will unless attacks pick up.
    I'm sure until now Those dudes in Israel found the way to close the board and in a short time the gate will be closed.
    I don't know who made the orders for opening the gate, but surely he is an idiot. I would never mess with Israel !

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure until now Those dudes in Israel found the way to close the board and in a short time the gate will be closed.
    I don't know who made the orders for opening the gate, but surely he is an idiot. I would never mess with Israel !
    Yea I think they are looking for trouble, but Egypt is now run by the Muslim brotherhood so who knows what will happen in the coming months.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Yea I think they are looking for trouble, but Egypt is now run by the Muslim brotherhood so who knows what will happen in the coming months.
    heated Muslims + Power = always Chaos and trouble

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    heated Muslims + Power = always Chaos and trouble
    Yes. Now let's wait for a new peace plan that will last for a few years. Then maybe a massive war.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes. Now let's wait for a new peace plan that will last for a few years. Then maybe a massive war.
    Why a massive war?

    What they are trying to have happen is for Palestine to be recognized as a state by the UN. Even the US is pressing in that direction but Israel is not too happy about it.

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    I really hope the new egyptian government doesnt start becoming Israels enemy, it will just end in more chaos and war. Egypt has been very helpful and diplomatic with the israelis and kept peace for nearly 30 years.

    The only reason Israel is not happy about the 'palestinian state' is that they want the state to basically be the 1967 borders, which is like saying lets give back all of lousiana to france and all of texas, new mexico and arizona to the mexicans; because they want a 'bigger state'.

    I just hope this doesnt start more war, because things can get really nasty really quick, I know because I lived there during the gulf war in '91.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I really hope the new egyptian government doesnt start becoming Israels enemy, it will just end in more chaos and war. Egypt has been very helpful and diplomatic with the israelis and kept peace for nearly 30 years.

    The only reason Israel is not happy about the 'palestinian state' is that they want the state to basically be the 1967 borders, which is like saying lets give back all of lousiana to france and all of texas, new mexico and arizona to the mexicans; because they want a 'bigger state'.

    I just hope this doesnt start more war, because things can get really nasty really quick, I know because I lived there during the gulf war in '91.
    Interesting.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    The only reason Israel is not happy about the 'palestinian state' is that they want the state to basically be the 1967 borders, which is like saying lets give back all of lousiana to france and all of texas, new mexico and arizona to the mexicans; because they want a 'bigger state'.
    Yep, and the Arabs all want pre-1947 borders as in Israel does not exist.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yep, and the Arabs all want pre-1947 borders as in Israel does not exist.
    This is the truth in their minds, Mexico got over it; time to graduate into the 21st century.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    This is the truth in their minds, Mexico got over it; time to graduate into the 21st century.
    Mexico also has a large portion of central America. These people are fighting over land the size of our backyards.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Mexico also has a large portion of central America. These people are fighting over land the size of our backyards.
    I understand, but it wouldnt matter if it was a state the size of rhode island or mexico. The palestinians are running their country with 500 year old dictatorships, whereas Israel is ran more like a modern day democracy where women can vote, drive cars and sing at bars; you cant do any of this $#@! anywhere else in the middle east. So it all comes down to principal, the extremist shia law followers dont care about the size of the land, they want to get rid of the taste of western society from the middle east.

    Fortunately for us, there have been revolutions in a half a dozen muslim countries. I really hope this somehow continues into Gaza and the West bank, because the entire Israeli military in all of its might is not able to kill every single hamas or hezbollah member. If one of them still lives, then democracy has lost and Israel has lost.

    The win has to come from within, the people of gaza and west bank need to realize that israel is not their enemy, but the people who govern them and force them to live in a $#@!hole. Trust me, muslims have more rights in israel then they do in their own countries, for gods sake they are even allowed to vote in israel.

    Anyway, revolution has to come from WITHIN; big guns will not make peace in a case like this and neither will giving away land that is 1st world to people that have the mentality of 3rd world bedouins.
    Last edited by DBFIU; 05-30-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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    The Israeli army is very strong but they have a lot of enemies. Open boarders is asking for trouble and I'm sure it will be closed soon.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Karo Click here to enlarge
    The Israeli army is very strong but they have a lot of enemies. Open boarders is asking for trouble and I'm sure it will be closed soon.
    Egypt has the right to do whatever they want with their own border, don't see how it is a problem for people to finally have access to the outside world.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I understand, but it wouldnt matter if it was a state the size of rhode island or mexico. The palestinians are running their country with 500 year old dictatorships, whereas Israel is ran more like a modern day democracy where women can vote, drive cars and sing at bars; you cant do any of this $#@! anywhere else in the middle east. So it all comes down to principal, the extremist shia law followers dont care about the size of the land, they want to get rid of the taste of western society from the middle east.

    Fortunately for us, there have been revolutions in a half a dozen muslim countries. I really hope this somehow continues into Gaza and the West bank, because the entire Israeli military in all of its might is not able to kill every single hamas or hezbollah member. If one of them still lives, then democracy has lost and Israel has lost.

    The win has to come from within, the people of gaza and west bank need to realize that israel is not their enemy, but the people who govern them and force them to live in a $#@!hole. Trust me, muslims have more rights in israel then they do in their own countries, for gods sake they are even allowed to vote in israel.

    Anyway, revolution has to come from WITHIN; big guns will not make peace in a case like this and neither will giving away land that is 1st world to people that have the mentality of 3rd world bedouins.
    I think the size of the state really would have an effect because it's a fight over a small bit of territory. If they had plenty of land nobody would care and each would have their space. But they have been fighting over this little parcel for thousands of years.

    I don't know if a different government is the solution or if there is any solution as they just seem to want to keep fighting.

    The answer in my opinion is not that the Palestinians bow down to Israel as their governors but for Israel to recognize their sovereignty in the same way that Israel sought recognition of its own. Israel does not seem to be ready to treat the Palestinians as equals.

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    I agree and I support the open boarders but I'm just saying that "something" will happen and the borders will be closed again. Reminds me of those peaceful demonstrations where couple of inside guys start causing trouble and they say the group got out of hand and end up breaking up the demonstration.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Karo Click here to enlarge
    I agree and I support the open boarders but I'm just saying that "something" will happen and the borders will be closed again. Reminds me of those peaceful demonstrations where couple of inside guys start causing trouble and they say the group got out of hand and end up breaking up the demonstration.
    If something doesn't happen they will try to invent something. Whose purpose is not served by open borders?

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    So sad all the fighting and killing over a small piece of land.
    and for so long but sticky is right they will probably fight over it for the next thousand years.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think the size of the state really would have an effect because it's a fight over a small bit of territory. If they had plenty of land nobody would care and each would have their space. But they have been fighting over this little parcel for thousands of years.

    I don't know if a different government is the solution or if there is any solution as they just seem to want to keep fighting.

    The answer in my opinion is not that the Palestinians bow down to Israel as their governors but for Israel to recognize their sovereignty in the same way that Israel sought recognition of its own. Israel does not seem to be ready to treat the Palestinians as equals.
    They arent ready to be equals because they arent, have you seen both countries? One is a modern 1st world, the other is a $#@!hole being controlled by mafia.

    How would America react if they had to recognize a country like Gaza on their border that wants more 'land'? Shoots rockets into texas whenever they feel like it, then blame the USA for their $#@!ty living conditions and demands that the USA build roads and sewage treatment plants because of such harsh conditions, and remove all security checkpoints because it is 'demeaning'. Everytime the palestinians get money, they blow it on rockets and guns, who needs water treatment plants and power plants right...

    You gotta see the other side of the story, the victim isnt always the poor person living in a shack, because if that was the case; osama would be a poor victim too.

    Its simple, israel doesnt need the palestinians to bow down to them as their governers.

    There was once a famous quote i thought of that made good sense.

    If the palestinians put down their arms, there would be peace, if israel would put down their arms there would be no israel.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    They arent ready to be equals because they arent, have you seen both countries? One is a modern 1st world, the other is a $#@!hole being controlled by mafia.
    I'm not referring to equal technology or government but equality as human beings. There is no reason I can think of that one has a right to declare sovereignty out of nowhere and the other doesn't. Clearly there is political bias at work here.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    How would America react if they had to recognize a country like Gaza on their border that wants more 'land'? Shoots rockets into texas whenever they feel like it, then blame the USA for their $#@!ty living conditions and demands that the USA build roads and sewage treatment plants because of such harsh conditions, and remove all security checkpoints because it is 'demeaning'. Everytime the palestinians get money, they blow it on rockets and guns, who needs water treatment plants and power plants right...
    America doesn't have thousands of years of religious fighting in the background of this issue so it isn't a valid analogy. There is no analogy that works, this is a unique situation that needs to be treated as such.

    The argument can just as easily be made they wouldn't shoot rockets in if the place they were shooting them into didn't occupy their territory AGAINST United Nations resolutions (as in Israel is in violation of International Law) or put a wall up around their territory. Some call it a "security" fence but sometimes a wall is a wall.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    You gotta see the other side of the story, the victim isnt always the poor person living in a shack, because if that was the case; osama would be a poor victim too.
    Oh, I have taken more than one history of the Modern Middle East course and know the situation fairly well. It was also taught by a Jewish professor so I think I got the other side quite well. I also got an A Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Its simple, israel doesnt need the palestinians to bow down to them as their governers.
    Then why do they occupy them and dictate rules to them as if they are?

    There was once a famous quote i thought of that made good sense.

    If the palestinians put down their arms, there would be peace, if israel would put down their arms there would be no israel.
    Sounds like a popular quote in Israel.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not referring to equal technology or government but equality as human beings. There is no reason I can think of that one has a right to declare sovereignty out of nowhere and the other doesn't. Clearly there is political bias at work here.

    Sure all human beings are equal, but that argument doesnt apply, because thats like saying im equal to a liberian machete tribal murderer. We are both human? Yes we are but we both have vastly different outlooks on life. Israel has no problem declaring peace and soverignty as long as palestinians stop the bull$#@! voting terror groups into office, and yes they are terror groups not 'revolutionaries' or 'martyrs'. They are terror groups recognized as such by 100+ countries.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    America doesn't have thousands of years of religious fighting in the background of this issue so it isn't a valid analogy. There is no analogy that works, this is a unique situation that needs to be treated as such.
    I agree there really is no analogy that works here, but it's close enough for people that live in the states and dont know what its like to live in either gaza or israel, ive been to both places so that is the best analogy i could come up with.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The argument can just as easily be made they wouldn't shoot rockets in if the place they were shooting them into didn't occupy their territory AGAINST United Nations resolutions (as in Israel is in violation of International Law) or put a wall up around their territory. Some call it a "security" fence but sometimes a wall is a wall.
    thats your typical argument "what came first the chicken or egg, the victim or the oppressor"

    My short answer is, who cares, Israel is there to stay, they have control over that region and rightfully so, just like the US took control over the north american continent 200 years ago, should we give it back to the indians?

    palestinians are causing a lot more grief unto themselves the more they try and push back. Its not about living poor in slums, they have tons of money being funneled into them all the time but they use it for evil. Israel on the other hand comes up with medications to cure diseases, technology for entertainment and defense mechanisms for their civilians. Believe it or not they are not as bloodthirsty as you think.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge

    Oh, I have taken more than one history of the Modern Middle East course and know the situation fairly well. It was also taught by a Jewish professor so I think I got the other side quite well. I also got an A Click here to enlarge

    i am sure you have taken a few courses and done well, most people arent as educated as you on the subject, im serious. But ive lived in different cities, in israel, near gaza/israeli borders, near jordan/israeli borders and the muslim arabs that live in israel are the happiest and most complimentary people to the israeli government. Because they accepted the fact that this country is not going to be dissolved into shia law and are content living in a free world


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Then why do they occupy them and dictate rules to them as if they are?



    Sounds like a popular quote in Israel.
    It's for their own good, look at the 22 other muslim countries and tell me if gazans had their own government that it would end well, you cant convince me of that because ive seen it first hand what they are capable of doing, turning beautiful green pastures developed by israeli agriculture into sandy slums ran by hamas rocket shacks. Believe it or not, israel has pioneered low water content agriculture and turned a desert into green landscape.

    Theres a reason they are miserable, and its not 100% israels fault, contrary to popular belief.



    by the way, this is OT, israeli scientists developed the XBOX kinect motion and photo-recognition technology that is being used today by microsoft. It was developed in Tel-Aviv, just throwing that out there Click here to enlarge


    "At the heart of Microsoft Xbox’s next-generation technology is PrimeSense, a five year-old Tel Aviv-based company with a cutting edge, 3D motion-sensing camera.

    Both Microsoft and Sony have come under pressure from the success of rival Nintendo’s motion-controlled Wii, and each plans to release a competing motion-gaming accessory by the end of 2010.

    Sony Corp’s PlayStation Move appears to be similar to the Wii remote, albeit said to detect movements more precisely.

    Microsoft is attempting to leap ahead and introduce a completely controller-free gaming device. Code-named Project Natal, it uses a motion-sensing camera developed by PrimeSense of Tel-Aviv to detect the player’s movements. PrimeSense is in the process of licensing the technology to Microsoft’s Xbox."
    Last edited by DBFIU; 05-30-2011 at 09:55 PM.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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    Also, this argument of who came first and who did what first etc.. etc.. can go on forever. The jist of the matter is, if there is to be peace in the middle east reform has to come from within. That is the only way.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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