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  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    You betchya, HPF already announced that if you switch to proefi the warranty is gone. So guys like ccsykes who are switching to proefi are losing there warranty, even if Jason himself tunes it to the kit. Sucks, but I get why, but things like the intake manifold should still be covered. Those parts shouldn't effect what ems you have but regardless the warranty is gone.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    You betchya, HPF already announced that if you switch to proefi the warranty is gone.
    Good stuff, I missed this. They sure don't like competition eh? So even if the Pro-EFI is locked, Jason tunes it, still no warranty? That is rough!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    but things like the intake manifold should still be covered. Those parts shouldn't effect what ems you have but regardless the warranty is gone.
    Agreed.

  3. #28
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    Hopefully after things settle down, I could buy my kit and have HPF tune it with proefi and lock it. When enough people switch the aem out maybe they will honor a limited warranty. Like the turbo is not covered amongst other things but components that have nothing to do with the switch or couldn't effect if they fail are covered. Who know, I'm just glad I can weigh my options and didn't go with HPF last year before the proefi came out, and wishing things were different. Time will tell I guess.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully after things settle down, I could buy my kit and have HPF tune it with proefi and lock it. When enough people switch the aem out maybe they will honor a limited warranty. Like the turbo is not covered amongst other things but components that have nothing to do with the switch or couldn't effect if they fail are covered. Who know, I'm just glad I can weigh my options and didn't go with HPF last year before the proefi came out, and wishing things were different. Time will tell I guess.
    Definitely, things are getting very interesting in the s54 scene. More competition, more development, more talk, I'm liking it.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Good stuff, I missed this. They sure don't like competition eh? So even if the Pro-EFI is locked, Jason tunes it, still no warranty? That is rough
    I get where they are coming from. But if a new product comes out that has more failsafes and options, why wouldn't they utilize it. Would seem like a bad business move but Chris seems like a good business man and will hopefully do what's best for the customers. After years of kits being made, something better always comes along, I really hope that I can get an HPF kit which has proven itself to me, with proefi, an updated platform that will perform better than Aem. Just the no sevice light alone, I would think would bring in many customers and HPF would be flying Jason in already.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Definitely, things are getting very interesting in the s54 scene. More competition, more development, more talk, I'm liking it.
    I'm loving it haha.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    I get where they are coming from. But if a new product comes out that has more failsafes and options, why wouldn't they utilize it.
    Only one reason, $. They invested a ton in the AEM, they want that money back.

  8. #33
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    I also want to say that only time will tell. The proefi looks great, but until it's proven with many miles put on s54's, I'm not jumping on it. I hope the best for the HPF guys that are making the switch as we speak, and patiently waiting to see the outcome and if it's best for me. I'm really hoping there are no smoke and mirrors with proefi, and it works wonders for the f/I community. The whole vanos thing is what worrys me, HPF made the decision that they had the keep a check engine light over it. And Jason says it's simply not needed to control the vanos in a turbo m3. I hope so, I'm skeptical because I would think that HPF would do everything in their power to not throw a code but they said it was needed. I really hope that this new platform works wonders.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    I also want to say that only time will tell. The proefi looks great, but until it's proven with many miles put on s54's, I'm not jumping on it. I hope the best for the HPF guys that are making the switch as we speak, and patiently waiting to see the outcome and if it's best for me. I'm really hoping there are no smoke and mirrors with proefi, and it works wonders for the f/I community. The whole vanos thing is what worrys me, HPF made the decision that they had the keep a check engine light over it. And Jason says it's simply not needed to control the vanos in a turbo m3. I hope so, I'm skeptical because I would think that HPF would do everything in their power to not throw a code but they said it was needed. I really hope that this new platform works wonders.
    There are a couple members here making the switch (honest and nice guys) so we will know the truth and impressions from them soon enough.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Only one reason, $. They invested a ton in the AEM, they want that money back.
    Very very true, but sometimes the times change and you have to go with what's new and better. I'm sure HPF isn't doing to bad money wise, that this couldn't be an option if they wanted.

    That's the best part, I know Marcus will put everything out there.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    Very very true, but sometimes the times change and you have to go with what's new and better. I'm sure HPF isn't doing to bad money wise, that this couldn't be an option if they wanted.

    That's the best part, I know Marcus will put everything out there.
    We're talking an investment of a 1/4 million. That isn't, "times change oh well" that is, "We better get our $#@!ing money back!"

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're talking an investment of a 1/4 million. That isn't, "times change oh well" that is, "We better get our $#@!ing money back!"
    LOL, I get that, but the amount the kits cost, and the fact most people upgrade to bigger kits, or start out with crazy pricey high stages, makes me think that they are already in the green and recuperated all their R&D spent.

    I don't know, I'm not there accountant...haha. Well like I said, time will tell. Its, they either make money with it or lose money with out it. The fact that proefi is available means they are already losing money.

  13. #38
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    AEM contract maybe?

  14. #39
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    So Chris said that there are now over 100 HPF kits out there, even if they were all stage 1's, that's 1.5 million just on kits. We all know that they aren't all stage ones and the prices of the higher stages doubles the stage 1, not to mention, installation, and HPF clutches that are needed for any kit, and all the add one that most HPF guys buy like traction control, diffs, and boing HPF CF.

    I know that there are production costs, but even with them I'm sure the company is far into the positive and payed back those r&d cost a long ways back. So hopefully I'm right about that and they give the customer what they want, wich is always the latest and best for their cars. Hopefully proefi proves itself and is something HPF offers in time.

    I mean cmon already, the customers have spoken and are going this route regardless of loss of warranty, so that's gotta say something to them.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BattaM3 Click here to enlarge
    AEM contract maybe?
    I hope not.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bmxpert86 Click here to enlarge
    So Chris said that there are now over 100 HPF kits out there, even if they were all stage 1's, that's 1.5 million just on kits. We all know that they aren't all stage ones and the prices of the higher stages doubles the stage 1, not to mention, installation, and HPF clutches that are needed for any kit, and all the add one that most HPF guys buy like traction control, diffs, and boing HPF CF.

    I know that there are production costs, but even with them I'm sure the company is far into the positive and payed back those r&d cost a long ways back. So hopefully I'm right about that and they give the customer what they want, wich is always the latest and best for their cars. Hopefully proefi proves itself and is something HPF offers in time.

    I mean cmon already, the customers have spoken and are going this route regardless of loss of warranty, so that's gotta say something to them.
    We really don't know their finances but in all likelihood they are in the green.

    If you check out my interview with Chris though from a little while back he said they still had money to get back: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...sepower-Freaks

  17. #42
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    just send it to Neel for the Vipec.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    just send it to Neel for the Vipec.
    Another option.

  19. #44
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    HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.
    I don't know if I would say hand over fist but one can clearly look at their pricing and see there is quite a profit margin. So while they aren'y Microsoft they are a business and with how they are protecting their AEM solution as well as now taking manifolds in house I think they clearly are focused on making cash. The E46 M3 market sure seems to be lucrative since everyone who wanted to go turbo had to go through them basically.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    HPF's operation is significantly bigger and more costly then it appears from the outside. They have a Staff of atleast 10-15 people.. their shop/offices are massive.. something like 20,000sqft.. they rent out about 1/4 of it or so to another company that does something unrelated.. but I know a place like that goes for ATLEAST 10k/mo+.. combined with the salary of lets say 4-5 techs, a few 'managers', and 4-7 support staff.. 1.5mil isn't squat. I'm willing to wager they make the majority of their money on selling parts unrelated to their HPF cars.. and used that revenue as a crutch to get the HPF M3's off the ground. I'm sure they've broke even on the HPF M3's by now, but their not making hand over fist like everyone thinks.
    this!
    it was either Dave or Chris that told me once that the m3 market is only about 25% of their business.......i dont remember which one told me, it was several years ago
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    this!
    it was either Dave or Chris that told me once that the m3 market is only about 25% of their business.......i dont remember which one it was several years ago
    But then why would they make such a large investment in it? Just is not logical.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But then why would they make such a large investment in it? Just is not logical.
    the same reason anyone else would i guess....to make money

    im sure they make quite a chunk on the turbo side, all i was getting at is they sell a $#@! ton of other parts all year long as well.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Funkboy316 Click here to enlarge
    the same reason anyone else would i guess....to make money

    im sure they make quite a chunk on the turbo side, all i was getting at is they sell a $#@! ton of other parts all year long as well.
    Yes, they likely do. I associated HPF with Supras for a long time but that was back in the day.

  25. #50
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    at one time chris told me( not personally, actually he posted it somewhere) he needed to sell 100 kits to reach ROI, however they also never expected to sell so many higher stage kits so quickly. they believed they would sell alot more stage 1 kits than they did. with everyone going stright for the higher stage kits Im sure the number of kits to reach ROI decreased significantly.

    now this is just my speculation but i believe it to be true.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TwinturboM3
    I bang the chickens on my farm 60-130 times a day.
    Click here to enlarge

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