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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    hehe Bijan , that's my father's name Click here to enlarge
    Are you from north part of Iran ?
    Yes, my pops came to America from Shahi.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3 Click here to enlarge
    Keep on jealousing.

  2. #77
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You are leaving out a lot of important details.

    First of all, non-muslims paid the tax but were not required to serve in the military. So, essentially, in the Ottoman empire it was the Muslims that were protecting them and they paid in lieu of military service.

    Secondly, the Ottomans never forced Jews or Christians to convert, they were fairly tolerant. It may be true they forced those Albanians to convert but from an Ottoman history class I took a while back the Ottomans allowed non-muslims to live in their territory without force conversions.
    When it comes to Albania you know zero.
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  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    When it comes to Albania you know zero.
    Didn't say I was an expert on Albania and I did not doubt your Albania information. I only wanted to point out the Ottomans did not take that approach with everyone and were actually fairly tolerant of other religions for a Muslim empire.
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  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Didn't say I was an expert on Albania and I did not doubt your Albania information. I only wanted to point out the Ottomans did not take that approach with everyone and were actually fairly tolerant of other religions for a Muslim empire.
    That's because others submitted or lost early on.
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  5. #80
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    That's because others submitted or lost early on.
    Incorrect, there were those who relocated to the Ottoman empire to escape persecution, like Jews.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Incorrect, there were those who relocated to the Ottoman empire to escape persecution, like Jews.
    You are failing to understand what I'm referring to. I'm talking about Eastern Europe during 1300-1500's.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    You are failing to understand what I'm referring to. I'm talking about Eastern Europe during 1300-1500's.
    I thought you were talking about religions in areas under Ottoman control, like Albania?

    Eastern Europe in 1300-1500 saw frequent warfare with the Ottomans. I wrote a paper on the subject I'm sure I could find to share on the topic.
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    Back on topic?
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  9. #84
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    This women has shut the mouth of everyone in this thread. Do not weep over her words.
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    she makes a graat observation about the misplaced anger. tyrants always hide behind their Book. but tyrants are like forces of nature, and if you build your house in tornado alley you deserve to get scattered by the winds.

    it's all so pathetic; the notion that somewhere back in the primordial ooze my dna mingled with theirs makes my $#@!ing SKIN crawl..
    ​"For the most part, it was pretty quiet all night long in gold and silver, but I'm sure the bullion banks are still lurking out there somewhere." -Ed Steer

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by susan28 Click here to enlarge
    she makes a graat observation about the misplaced anger. tyrants always hide behind their Book. but tyrants are like forces of nature, and if you build your house in tornado alley you deserve to get scattered by the winds.

    it's all so pathetic; the notion that somewhere back in the primordial ooze my dna mingled with theirs makes my $#@!ing SKIN crawl..
    Yea she smacked all their faces with Brain power.
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    here's my perspective, and i sometimes am afraid my own people would turn on me...

    This is a serious issue and problem. I disliked the US for many reasons for hate and racism towards me, but the cases were few and far between. In fact, the perpetrators were always (and not trying to insinuate racism!) driving trucks and wearing camo. It was always the case in my situation. However, our problems are worse than yours. In kuwait, we have our issues with people blindly following faith.

    Let me talk about the lady who burns the koran: it is not wrong, and I cannot be mad at her, but what she is doing will harm your people; it is restraint that makes the US different, but when you publicly show no restraint, it is weak and it creates hate. Now you have all the blind followers of islam, who see this and want to kill this woman. They think it is right, because she has violated their religion and in the religion it says you can kill those who attack your god or his book. So, what is happening is that she is simply endangering herself. I feel that she should not have to feel threatened because she burned the book. I know of people who consider christians not as normal people. I would love to explain to them otherwise, but their brains are bricks. They are like the rednecks of the west.

    the lady who criticizes islam: I honestly feel the same way sometimes, and belive me guys, it is not easy to talk to your friends about this, especially growing up where I grew up. Alot are people of blind faith, intolerant and have no rationale when it comes to these things. I do not feel it is my duty to convince them all that they are wrong, but I feel like we should not be insulting one another. the same way that i think that they are wrong about their mentality, they think of me (if they knew...).

    The message of peace is the only message that matters, and to explain that is simply too much for some. Do you know what the motives are for killing another because they insult your religion? The koran promises alot for those who protect... only it's in the after life LOL so yeah, let's see what happens.

    And finally, I think as a civilized, or more civilized nation, you guys should simply have restraint. Holding people accountable for doing as they please is not right, but if her actions provoke our idiots to harm you, then what do you say? Was it worth it? Would you argue with an idiot and go down to his level? No! All I am saying is that you are right to hate, but both sides are doing harm in the name og god, and that is just BS.

    Religion should not equal politics, yet it does. My country was ruined by people who think in a radical manner, and the liberals are trying to hold on to their freedoms. We do not like radical thinking, but we should all have respect for anyone who wants to practice belief, no matter how obsolete it is; just don't harm anyone!
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  13. #88
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    here's my perspective, and i sometimes am afraid my own people would turn on me...

    This is a serious issue and problem. I disliked the US for many reasons for hate and racism towards me, but the cases were few and far between. In fact, the perpetrators were always (and not trying to insinuate racism!) driving trucks and wearing camo. It was always the case in my situation. However, our problems are worse than yours. In kuwait, we have our issues with people blindly following faith.

    Let me talk about the lady who burns the koran: it is not wrong, and I cannot be mad at her, but what she is doing will harm your people; it is restraint that makes the US different, but when you publicly show no restraint, it is weak and it creates hate. Now you have all the blind followers of islam, who see this and want to kill this woman. They think it is right, because she has violated their religion and in the religion it says you can kill those who attack your god or his book. So, what is happening is that she is simply endangering herself. I feel that she should not have to feel threatened because she burned the book. I know of people who consider christians not as normal people. I would love to explain to them otherwise, but their brains are bricks. They are like the rednecks of the west.

    the lady who criticizes islam: I honestly feel the same way sometimes, and belive me guys, it is not easy to talk to your friends about this, especially growing up where I grew up. Alot are people of blind faith, intolerant and have no rationale when it comes to these things. I do not feel it is my duty to convince them all that they are wrong, but I feel like we should not be insulting one another. the same way that i think that they are wrong about their mentality, they think of me (if they knew...).

    The message of peace is the only message that matters, and to explain that is simply too much for some. Do you know what the motives are for killing another because they insult your religion? The koran promises alot for those who protect... only it's in the after life LOL so yeah, let's see what happens.

    And finally, I think as a civilized, or more civilized nation, you guys should simply have restraint. Holding people accountable for doing as they please is not right, but if her actions provoke our idiots to harm you, then what do you say? Was it worth it? Would you argue with an idiot and go down to his level? No! All I am saying is that you are right to hate, but both sides are doing harm in the name og god, and that is just BS.

    Religion should not equal politics, yet it does. My country was ruined by people who think in a radical manner, and the liberals are trying to hold on to their freedoms. We do not like radical thinking, but we should all have respect for anyone who wants to practice belief, no matter how obsolete it is; just don't harm anyone!
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  14. #89
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    It is astonishing to me how some people can believe in things like that.......just makes 0 sense in my head. Any faith that tells you to treat women like objects, behead people, rape, etc..., is evil in my eyes (Realm of Terror). Enough said.

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    I try to give anyone who believes in a Sky Daddy a wide berth.. Power of prayer = power of focused desire, you can do it alone or with others, no need to empower religious leaders who create false dogma around it. Faith = the belief in things hoped for, ie: wishful thinking. BUT that can change things if approached with awareness, just wish we'd put the credit in the right place.

    It's frustrating, alq, that people with higher-order thought capacity must treat troglodytes like unaccountable forces of nature where the blame is always on the victim for what amounts to not knowing better than to stand infront of a tornado. But these radicals (muslim, xtian and otherwise..) aren't weather events they're humans who just ACT like weather events, and them having no restraint should be no more acceptable than anyone else.

    Can you see where an attitude of "cut the poor primitive dears some slack" is actually more insulting than at least giving them the credit for being able to take and respond to criticism? It reminds me of liberals who think minorities need their help otherwise the poor things will just flounder aimlessly thru life with no white man to bear their burden.

    But this is why i'm so rabidly anti-intervention, cuz peeps get defensive when you upend their belief/social systems too quickly, and it tends to be knowledge that cures religion, so we just need to leave them alone but trade with them - if THEY wish it - and hope enlightenment follows once they're outta the sticks economically, which means revolutions against their leaders and rejection of US "help" in fighting them if they don't want Baba O'Reilly as their next Prez..

    And yeah, that all-the-virgins-you-can-eat thing could definitely be a moral hazard!

    But i do get your post, alq. You're saying that cuz we've higher rationality we take the high road, basically, it just gets tiresome after awhile. And i know you relate.
    ​"For the most part, it was pretty quiet all night long in gold and silver, but I'm sure the bullion banks are still lurking out there somewhere." -Ed Steer

  16. #91
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by susan28 Click here to enlarge
    I try to give anyone who believes in a Sky Daddy a wide berth.. Power of prayer = power of focused desire, you can do it alone or with others, no need to empower religious leaders who create false dogma around it. Faith = the belief in things hoped for, ie: wishful thinking. BUT that can change things if approached with awareness, just wish we'd put the credit in the right place.

    It's frustrating, alq, that people with higher-order thought capacity must treat troglodytes like unaccountable forces of nature where the blame is always on the victim for what amounts to not knowing better than to stand infront of a tornado. But these radicals (muslim, xtian and otherwise..) aren't weather events they're humans who just ACT like weather events, and them having no restraint should be no more acceptable than anyone else.

    Can you see where an attitude of "cut the poor primitive dears some slack" is actually more insulting than at least giving them the credit for being able to take and respond to criticism? It reminds me of liberals who think minorities need their help otherwise the poor things will just flounder aimlessly thru life with no white man to bear their burden.

    But this is why i'm so rabidly anti-intervention, cuz peeps get defensive when you upend their belief/social systems too quickly, and it tends to be knowledge that cures religion, so we just need to leave them alone but trade with them - if THEY wish it - and hope enlightenment follows once they're outta the sticks economically, which means revolutions against their leaders and rejection of US "help" in fighting them if they don't want Baba O'Reilly as their next Prez..

    And yeah, that all-the-virgins-you-can-eat thing could definitely be a moral hazard!

    But i do get your post, alq. You're saying that cuz we've higher rationality we take the high road, basically, it just gets tiresome after awhile. And i know you relate.
    Very much so, I do think that you understand what I am saying; since we are, and not insultingly, able to see a clearer picture of things, we should restrain ourselves before they do. It's like going down to an idiot's level only for him to be the mature one and stop you dead in your tracks!

    But there are more problems than simply what you have stated; there are people who are simply labelled in a sense that regardless of your belief your LAST NAME is your burden. I have a last name that associates me with being a shia, and belive me, I am fair game to some people, more so than a christian or jew! So, the problem is not just blind faith, but irrational thinking, and greed. The guy who comes to kill me is not thinknig of what the world lost or gained in my absence, but for recognition as the one who had slain me. it is unbelievable.

    The Koran is subjective: as a rational human being, I can read it and say: this applies to my times, this does not. This is moral, this is not. This is violent and this is not. I am not a religious person, but I try to be moral.

    what is more tiresome to me is that I have to see this all around me, and I CANNOT say anything. I cannot criticize, nor can I comment. My voice is my demise, and my name is not helpful either. See, this lady has every right to do what she did, but what she did was done to aggravate others. It is out of frustration, but a different approach would be just as helpful.

    I would much rather see her talk to a somewhat-well-known muslim sheikh or something (a person knowledgable in islam) and debate the validity of her arguments. She brought up good points, and ones that need to be addressed, but why not do it in a way that will invoke curiosity and doubt?

    I will tell you what, I talked to one of my best friends, who is a radical of my own sect, and got through to him to some degree; he is not anti-islam, but he is selective, he sees things for what they are. He is still devout to his sect (like a Steelers fan, for example) but then again, it is almost exactly the same. You are born into your side, just as you are born into the team you are going to root for based on your parents beliefs.

    We have no control in the end, but those of us who have been able to see more clearly should simply use it for the better; I just wish my country would separate religous law and state law.

    Moe (or mohammed LOL!)
    Last edited by alq80; 04-14-2011 at 07:16 PM.
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  17. #92
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    I do have to take back a few words about the woman in blue who critisizes the koran. She really had taken unreliable sources, and that is not an excuse, but she is also being very hateful. Again, hate and spitefulness is simply not effective; but simply a tool to create more hate.
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  18. #93
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    Yeah, religious affiliation (not necessarily dogma) seems to lend itself to getting bound up with tribal identity. The Irish catholic-vs-protestant thing comes to mind, in that case a proxy for the respective nationalist sentiments. They wouldnt'a known what to do with me, i'd have been drummed outta the IRA for refusing to go to church Click here to enlarge
    ​"For the most part, it was pretty quiet all night long in gold and silver, but I'm sure the bullion banks are still lurking out there somewhere." -Ed Steer

  19. #94
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  20. #95
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    HAHAHAHAAAA... true dat!
    ​"For the most part, it was pretty quiet all night long in gold and silver, but I'm sure the bullion banks are still lurking out there somewhere." -Ed Steer

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