Dyno results of a tuned P31 Package C63 AMG by OE Tuning, +30 whp

Promoted to the front page, great results.

Honestly, I didn't expect anything near these gains. Now we need to see you run the tuned C63 again.

good $#@!!

Incredible gains. That is truly amazing. Way to go Jeremy!

Great work DD GT3 RD and Jeremy (OE), congrats. Those are some very solid looking results and I was assuming the results would be much smaller. Still a little skeptical I guess.

There are still some anomalies and it will be nice to see these results backed up on VBox runs and maybe comparisons with other tuned C63s. Any plans for an independent dyno. Too late for base runs I suppose.

Thanks for taking the time, trouble and expense to record and post on these results. This is terrific information for the rest of us.

How are the seat of the pants results because that is where the fun is?

Well, if u trust the dyno, then the other car u mentioned that was 420 whp is about the same as your tuned p31. So no surprises w the end result? Tune only cars should be about the same?

Originally Posted by Sticky

Promoted to the front page, great results.

Honestly, I didn't expect anything near these gains. Now we need to see you run the tuned C63 again.

THIS

Originally Posted by Mort

Great work DD GT3 RD and Jeremy (OE), congrats. Those are some very solid looking results and I was assuming the results would be much smaller. Still a little skeptical I guess.

There are still some anomalies and it will be nice to see these results backed up on VBox runs and maybe comparisons with other tuned C63s. Any plans for an independent dyno. Too late for base runs I suppose.

Thanks for taking the time, trouble and expense to record and post on these results. This is terrific information for the rest of us.

How are the seat of the pants results because that is where the fun is?

Im typically someone who doesnt go by seat of the pants feel. I always think my mind is playing tricks on me! lol...but on the drive home I did feel like the car was faster, but mostly felt torquier down low. I will be doing some vbox runs soon, well see if I beat my old time, which I havent seen beaten by any tune only car yet

Originally Posted by Even Money

Well, if u trust the dyno, then the other car u mentioned that was 420 whp is about the same as your tuned p31. So no surprises w the end result? Tune only cars should be about the same?

well, I think my car is making more torque down low if im not mistaken, but different days...but I will try and set up runs with the same car. Last time we were tied when he was tuned and I was stock.

WOW! What a great tuner

Here is a graph of my car tuned, my car stock, and a tuned C63

as you can see the peak ended up being the same, but the torque on my car is great all the way thru and the HP curve is bigger on the low/mid range

Strong numbers you car is making. Make a video now of u and the tuned c63 That will be a nice show.

Originally Posted by Mort

Great work DD GT3 RD and Jeremy (OE), congrats. Those are some very solid looking results and I was assuming the results would be much smaller. Still a little skeptical I guess.

There are still some anomalies and it will be nice to see these results backed up on VBox runs and maybe comparisons with other tuned C63s. Any plans for an independent dyno. Too late for base runs I suppose.

Thanks for taking the time, trouble and expense to record and post on these results. This is terrific information for the rest of us.

How are the seat of the pants results because that is where the fun is?

He does have baselines, the second video is his baseline. Also, the baseline is shown on the graph.

He has done runs with another C63 which you saw here: http://www.benzboost.com/showthread....63-vs.-P31-C63

I'm hoping we can now see a tuned vs. tuned run but let's give him a chance

Originally Posted by Even Money

Well, if u trust the dyno, then the other car u mentioned that was 420 whp is about the same as your tuned p31. So no surprises w the end result? Tune only cars should be about the same?

It really depends on the area under the curve. No surprise the peaks will be similar but from the graph looks like the P31 has greater gains throughout.

Originally Posted by Sticky

It really depends on the area under the curve. No surprise the peaks will be similar but from the graph looks like the P31 has greater gains throughout.

Agreed about area under the curve...would be nice to see how this comparison will translate to the 1/4 mile..

Originally Posted by Even Money

Agreed about area under the curve...would be nice to see how this comparison will translate to the 1/4 mile..

Hehe, you guys are relentless sometimes.

Sammy isn't a big 1/4 mile guy. I know you will get dyno, Vbox numbers, and video comparisons showing the real world difference as he has which is pretty above and beyond already.

I would like to see what it does in the 1/4 as well but that is up to him.

Very nice! Congrats on the numbers man. Those guys obviously know their stuff, to squeeze that much more whp.

Hey there DD GT3 RD, thanks for guinea-pigging this, and also sharing all of the results and objective data with the forum. Here's what I'm having a hard time understanding.

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

. Last time we were tied when he was tuned and I was stock.

I remember reading about this when you guys met up. Head-to-head, on the street, his OE tuned non-P31 was identical to your stock P31 in accelleration testing.

Now, do me a favor... look at the orange run (xtyper tuned) and the aqua blue run (you stock).

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

Here is a graph of my car tuned, my car stock, and a tuned C63

http://www.audiboost.com/images/impo...Dynos600-1.jpg

Given the street-results mentioned above, one would expect the orange and blue runs to have very comparable peak output levels and areas under the curve. Yet, instead, the orange run shows significant gains - everywhere throughout the entire rpm range - over the aqua blue runs.

The dyno results posted suggest that xtyper's car tuned should've easily walked your P31 when it was stock. Yet, it didn't... his 421rwhp/374rwtq C63 couldn't pull away from your 391rwhp/353rwtq C63. Strange...

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

I remember reading about this when you guys met up. Head-to-head, on the street, his OE tuned non-P31 was identical to your stock P31 in accelleration testing.

Now, do me a favor... look at the orange run (xtyper tuned) and the aqua blue run (you stock).

Yes, the tuned C63 makes more power than the stock P31, yet the P31 was even. I think this is what you are trying to get at, correct?

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

The dyno results posted suggest that xtyper's car tuned should've easily walked your P31 when it was stock. Yet, it didn't. Strange...

The dyno results also show a P31 is stronger than a stock C63, correct? And the videos show a P31 walking a stock C63, correct? So a tune on the C63 brings it dead even to the P31.

Also, dyno results were done on different days. This is the same dyno though so I do see your point. The real world results do not lie however as the dyno is primarily a tuning tool. This is why we all prefer 1/4 mile, vbox, and comparison runs.

When both cars run tuned we will have an understanding that is much more clear.

^ yes, I agree. If I saw his tuned dyno and my stock dyno I would assume he would beat me easily. exactly why when I posted I wrote about it being funny, as in weird or strange.

But forget the dyno for a sec, I beat him by around 2 car lengths....after the tune was dead even so shows he must of gained good power.

Now the test will be when we run again to see what happens with both of us tuned. This will show what my car has gained.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Yes, the tuned C63 makes more power than the stock P31, yet the P31 was even. I think this is what you are trying to get at, correct?

Correct. Something doesn't add up in this case IMHO. A +30 rwhp, +25 rwtq advantage, throughout the entire rpm range (so, a huge area-under-the-curve advantage) for the tuned non-P31, yet they run dead even on the street.

The dyno results also show a P31 is stronger than a stock C63, correct? And the videos show a P31 walking a stock C63, correct? So a tune on the C63 brings it dead even to the P31.

Right. This dyno shows a stock C63 as 364 rwhp, 344 rwtq. Stock P31 C63 as 391 rwhp, 353 rwtq. Same dyno.

So, a delta of only +27 rwhp and +9 rwtq, results in the P31 walking the stock C63 by two car lengths. So far so good... as that makes sense. Yet when the C63 is tuned, it has a delta of +30 rwhp and +25 rwtq over the P31. But it can't walk the P31. At all. So that doesn't make sense.

Also, dyno results were done on different days. This is the same dyno though so I do see your point.

Day-to-day variability is less than ideal, but I'd suspect you wouldn't see swings in rwhp of 30+... are the posted results SAE?

This is why we all prefer 1/4 mile, vbox, and comparison runs.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD

^ yes, I agree. If I saw his tuned dyno and my stock dyno I would assume he would beat me easily. exactly why when I posted I wrote about it being funny, as in weird or strange.

Agree 100%.

But forget the dyno for a sec, I beat him by around 2 car lengths....after the tune was dead even so shows he must of gained good power.

Oh, I agree that his tuning gained him power - for sure. But if he had a 25 rwhp disadvantage and you could walk him, then he adds 55+ rwhp for a 30 rwhp advantage over you, he should have more than just caught up, and instead be able to walk you (i.e. your car is the variable that didn't change). But the real-world results didn't confirm/verify what the dyno results suggest.

Now the test will be when we run again to see what happens with both of us tuned. This will show what my car has gained.

Also agree. If you previously were even, and now you picked up 30+ rwhp and 30+ rwtq nearly everywhere... you should be back to walking xtyper's car by multiple car-lengths (I'd guess at least 3-4).

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

Correct. Something doesn't add up in this case IMHO. A +30 rwhp, +25 rwtq advantage, throughout the entire rpm range (so, a huge area-under-the-curve advantage) for the tuned non-P31, yet they run dead even on the street.

It is a bit puzzling, anything else in the P31 package that could account for it?

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

So, a delta of only +27 rwhp and +9 rwtq, results in the P31 walking the stock C63 by two car lengths. So far so good... as that makes sense. Yet when the C63 is tuned, it has a delta of +30 rwhp and +25 rwtq over the P31. But it can't walk the P31. At all. So that doesn't make sense.

But the change in the real world shows a difference. Just not one that would show the tuned C63 as being stronger than the P31. I can't explain why the P31 seems to be more efficient. Compression is the same although the tune is more aggressive and the internals are stronger.

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

Day-to-day variability is less than ideal, but I'd suspect you wouldn't see swings in rwhp of 30+... are the posted results SAE?

I would think they are corrected for conditions. Dyno dynamics throw me off so you need to ask the operator. I really prefer dynojets for these reasons.

Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM

Oh, I agree that his tuning gained him power - for sure. But if he had a 25 rwhp disadvantage and you could walk him, then he adds 55+ rwhp for a 30 rwhp advantage over you, he should have more than just caught up, and instead be able to walk you (i.e. your car is the variable that didn't change). But the real-world results didn't confirm/verify what the dyno results suggest.

The only thing I can think of is that Sammy may be lighter, had less fuel, or that Sammy's motor is right having many less miles on it than xtyper.

For whatever reason, the P31 sure looks to be more efficient. Is the air intake different in any way?