Race Video: Stock E36 M3 vs. OE Tuning tuned E46 330i

I'm not so impressed the 330 had a tune with a 3.38 diff. I bet the diff helped more then the tune.

Originally Posted by GG///M3

I'm not so impressed the 330 had a tune with a 3.38 diff. I bet the diff helped more then the tune.

Ask the owner, you may be right.

FYI, stock E36 M3 uses a 3.23 diff. Hardly a difference between the two (4.64%). The transmission is also the identical ZF S5D 320z 5-speed unit. So with the M3 being 60 lbs lighter (or 50 lbs heavier with a passenger), I don't think my 330 did too bad considering stock power is rated at 225hp/215tq vs the M3's 240hp/236 tq.

what is the weight of the 330 4 door, and e36 m3 without power seats is at 3,175lbs? A 3.38lsd makes a good difference in a e36 m3. I know this because I had 1 in 1 of my past m3's great bang for the buck honestly. I'm not calling bs or anything just not that impressed. To the 330 owner those TT turbo kits are pretty impressive. You should look into getting a setup like that. I have found over the years wasting money on n/a mods just isn't worth it if you are looking for good power.

Curb weights from wikipedia
E46 330i manual=3,285 lbs
E36 M3 manual= 3,219 lbs

Difference=66 lbs

My friend's M3 has power seats and so does my car.

M3 driver is about 150 lbs, i'm 200 lbs (sigh)

Originally Posted by GG///M3

what is the weight of the 330 4 door, and e36 m3 without power seats is at 3,175lbs? A 3.38lsd makes a good difference in a e36 m3. I know this because I had 1 in 1 of my past m3's great bang for the buck honestly. I'm not calling bs or anything just not that impressed. To the 330 owner those TT turbo kits are pretty impressive. You should look into getting a setup like that. I have found over the years wasting money on n/a mods just isn't worth it if you are looking for good power.

The E46 is heavier.

This is pretty impressive, I know because I remember having my ass handed to me by a manual E36 M3 in my E46 330i back in the day. Did manage to take an auto E36 M3 though somehow, can't explain that one.

Of course he would like a turbo setup or more power but not everyone wants to modify their car to that level. This is a cool showing of what just minor mods can do for you. The % of owners who go all out with forced induction is incredibly small. This actually applies to a greater % of BMW enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by 3Fest

Curb weights from wikipedia
E46 330i manual=3,285 lbs
E36 M3 manual= 3,219 lbs

Difference=66 lbs

My friend's M3 has power seats and so does my car.

M3 driver is about 150 lbs, i'm 200 lbs (sigh)

Wiki must be off. Standard m3 e36 is 3,175lbs. Which puts the m3 at about 110lbs less then ur car. What did your car make on the dyno with the tune and intake? N/a tunes and intakes do very little most of the time. I think the diff was the main factor here. Good run either way.

car made 12 whp and 21 wtq on just the oetuning tune

Originally Posted by GG///M3

Wiki must be off. Standard m3 e36 is 3,175lbs. Which puts the m3 at about 110lbs less then ur car. What did your car make on the dyno with the tune and intake? N/a tunes and intakes do very little most of the time. I think the diff was the main factor here. Good run either way.

The link to his tune results is in the main post.

The M54 has some room to play with. NA tunes can do a lot. Sure, there isn't as much to gain as with forced induction but even a motor that is highly stressed like the S65 gets some VERY nice gains from a tune.

The results are what they are.

Originally Posted by 3Fest

car made 12 whp and 21 wtq on just the oetuning tune

That is a good gain in power with just a tune and intake. Kind of reminds me of the euro hfm intake and tune gains for the obd1 95 m3.

I have read a lot regarding differentials/gearing, and do understand that they apply more torque at the wheels for a given RPM. What I do NOT understand, however, (please excuse this if it's already been answered) is HOW gearing can actually increase the acceleration of your car all the way to its Vmax. It may FEEL faster, but I don't understand how it could be any faster. Acceleration is "calculated" (neglecting wind resistance) using horsepower and weight; although power is a derivative of torque, torque is NOT energy related, it's a force acted on a "thing" without any velocity. If you can apply that torque with velocity, now you have power. Since we are increasing the torque at the wheels, but are decreasing the velocity of that torque at an inverse proportion, I don't understand where the gain is... I am not making sense...

Let me take an example from my misunderstood brain:

Given that power from the engine's output has remained unchanged, let's take the following as an example (
2 engines equal power - one with a tall rear gear, one short)

From 1000-5000 RPMs both cars have created whatever power they have created (area under the power curve from 1-5k RPMs) - one car just got to 5000 RPMs QUICKER than the other car due to the gearing, but is also at a SLOWER speed than the other car. You cannot create power/torque with gearing - it's just impossible.

The only thing possible that I can think of that would contribute to any increase in acceleration would be that after shifting, the car with the shorter gearing would be in the "meat" of the power band more often (assuming shifting at redline)... Is this what contributes to the car being quicker?

If this is the case, doesn't the fact that the car with the longer gearing (that won't yet be in the meat of the band) spend more TIME in the power band therefore washing away all "gains"?

Output from your engine is output from your engine. Yes, you can apply ridiculous amounts of torque from even a lawnmower engine given a crazy gear configuration, but that doesn't change the 5 HP output of the engine nor the time to cut the grass.

I really must be missing something. Sorry if this has been beaten to death in other forums or even this one. Just looking for an answer.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by inlineS54B32

I have read a lot regarding differentials/gearing, and do understand that they apply more torque at the wheels for a given RPM. What I do NOT understand, however, (please excuse this if it's already been answered) is HOW gearing can actually increase the acceleration of your car all the way to its Vmax. It may FEEL faster, but I don't understand how it could be any faster. Acceleration is "calculated" (neglecting wind resistance) using horsepower and weight; although power is a derivative of torque, torque is NOT energy related, it's a force acted on a "thing" without any velocity. If you can apply that torque with velocity, now you have power. Since we are increasing the torque at the wheels, but are decreasing the velocity of that torque at an inverse proportion, I don't understand where the gain is... I am not making sense...

Let me take an example from my misunderstood brain:

Given that power from the engine's output has remained unchanged, let's take the following as an example (
2 engines equal power - one with a tall rear gear, one short)

From 1000-5000 RPMs both cars have created whatever power they have created (area under the power curve from 1-5k RPMs) - one car just got to 5000 RPMs QUICKER than the other car due to the gearing, but is also at a SLOWER speed than the other car. You cannot create power/torque with gearing - it's just impossible.

The only thing possible that I can think of that would contribute to any increase in acceleration would be that after shifting, the car with the shorter gearing would be in the "meat" of the power band more often (assuming shifting at redline)... Is this what contributes to the car being quicker?

If this is the case, doesn't the fact that the car with the longer gearing (that won't yet be in the meat of the band) spend more TIME in the power band therefore washing away all "gains"?

Output from your engine is output from your engine. Yes, you can apply ridiculous amounts of torque from even a lawnmower engine given a crazy gear configuration, but that doesn't change the 5 HP output of the engine nor the time to cut the grass.

I really must be missing something. Sorry if this has been beaten to death in other forums or even this one. Just looking for an answer.

Cheers.

It doesn't add power/torque in what you would see on a dyno graph from the way I understand it. Look at the dct trans setup in the e9x m3's its the gearing that gives it the better feel. It will rev out a car faster. Also put it in the engine powerband faster then say a stock diff will. I did a diff swap on my car when it was sc'd. I went from a 3.15lsd to a 3.38. The feel of the car was night and day to me.

Well sticky this is a forum called bimmer boost hence the the boost call out If this site was called na bimmer then it would be a diff. story

I tried showing the guys at M3F... they saw the word OETuning and I got banned. They also censor the word BIMMERBOOST. Not surprising!

Originally Posted by jacobs323i

Well sticky this is a forum called bimmer boost hence the the boost call out If this site was called na bimmer then it would be a diff. story

The site is about BMW performance as written in the logo

You can "boost" a BMW's performance in more ways than just with forced induction. Tunes, suspension, cams, headwork, weight loss, etc. We don't just limit ourselves to one, it just happens to be a catchy name.

Originally Posted by 3Fest

I tried showing the guys at M3F... they saw the word OETuning and I got banned. They also censor the word BIMMERBOOST. Not surprising!

So those guys doubted your claims, you showed proof they were wrong, and you got banned for that? Wow, what an open minded group of enthusiasts.

Don't sweat it, no one goes there for any real info.

Originally Posted by inlineS54B32

I have read a lot regarding differentials/gearing, and do understand that they apply more torque at the wheels for a given RPM. What I do NOT understand, however, (please excuse this if it's already been answered) is HOW gearing can actually increase the acceleration of your car all the way to its Vmax. It may FEEL faster, but I don't understand how it could be any faster.

You are quite correct.

Shorter gearing will give you more torque but for a shorter period. So, you will be faster up until the shift point at which the car with stock gearing will be accelerating faster since for example it can hit say 35 mph in 1st gear vs. 30 for the shorter geared car.

If the car with shorter gearing could hit the same mph or had a higher rev limit to do so, it would be faster.

Case in point, I went to 3.62 from 3.15 in my DCT, pretty large change. It helped my off the line and I was quicker through the 1/8 but at higher speeds where you spend more time in gear it became a liability and my car trapped a lower MPH. Make sense?

Just wanted to say I feel for you bud, saw some of the comments on fanatics and just could not believe the level of stupidity. People actually talking down on your for showing how your car compares to a stock E36 M3? What a load of horse$#@! they turned that thread into.