Horsepower Freaks (HPF) Stage 4 E46 M3 S54 turbo puts down 925 whp

Originally Posted by ccsykes

I didn't have any port work done. The only "flow" modification was a decent valve job and unshrouding the valves. I didn't see the point of hogging the head out when running 20+ PSI of boost. The only thing my heads have different than OEM is a lighter (1 piece valve) that has been nitrated, more stronger valve train (balanced dual springs/steel retainers).

I don't expect to gain any additional power from my heads, however they should be more reliable. The springs are rated to 10,000 RPM, and being dual I won't have to worry about a dropped valve. The valve train would also be far more forgiving in a "money shift" situation.

Bottom line.. I didn't see the point in putting a set of OEM heads with 95,000 miles on a brand new built short block.. it just seemed dumb.

You'll make more power just by being able to rev it higher.. Which will help a ton! You are going stage 3 right? so 71mm...

Valves dropping can still happen, but its unlikely for sure... I know a hard misshift can still do it.. ask me how i know lol....

Gringo do you have a stg 4 HPF M3? Do you have a 76mm turbo S54? Do you have an M3 period? No offense but you've never seen/driven a 76mm S54 so I really don't think you know how they run. We haven't seen big track numbers because no 76mm S54 has really gone to the track ready...

Although I would love to rev to 9000rpm ( I will be raising mine to about 8500 next week during a tuning session) the S54 runs very well with a 76mm turbo. Granted, its a large turbo and has some lag, the S54 handles it pretty well.

Originally Posted by gringotegra

And yeah for a full out drag car, might as well go with a dog box!! ive driven a few dog box cars and yah they work great! the dog engagement is just pure win.... But bring the $$$$$!! From what i was told, the E46 tranny's are not that strong either... as soon as someone puts power down at a track, they just might break....

I've put up the numbers before, and I don't think people took it seriously. Heck, the tranny I had in the 330Ci was a $3000 core, with another $3000 in mods.(That's just the box) I find that to be pretty affordable compared to converting to a Jerico 5 speed:

• Jerico 5 speed with custom input shaft for BMW application, and shifter - $8000
• Custom Bell housing (SFI certified) - $2000
• Carbon/Carbon triple plate clutch and flywheel - $6000
• Driveshaft - $1000
• Custom Trans tunnel to fit the tranny - $$$$

That trans tunnel work is not to be underestimated either. If you are starting with a functioning car, and want to end with a functioning car that looks the same in the inside, you could have $10k in installation and fabrication costs.

Then you've got to look at the rear end...which can add up really fast again.

HPF posted up last year that were going to offer a "Drag Package" transmission for around $8000. I just don't see how they could do that, and have something that will last and be competitive. Most of the 600chp cars I know run $5000-$6000 auto transmissions/converters for drag racing, and nothing is custom. For a car to be reliable with 700-1100chp, I think you are looking at spending more than $8000 pretty easily. I know of one car that trashed the ATI 3000 HP Superglide with 1000hp...and that tranny isn't cheap. Of course I could be completely wrong about the drag package; it might do exactly what's needed for the asking price.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Why do dual springs mean no chance for a dropped valve?

From VAC Webs site:

VAC Tech Tips:

-These valves are a must-have when building a high performance and very high revving engine: They dramatically reduce valve weight and this improves valve train reliability greatly as the valve springs do not have so much mass to control.

Our renowned Spring Kits feature a custom dual spring capable of turning 12,000 RPM for that added piece of mind (Over-rev/Mis-shift). Our springs are shot-peened for stress relief and interference fit to control harmonic resonance across the rev range. Also in the dual spring configuration, should something happen to one spring, the other prevents the valve from dropping and causing catastrophic damage. Our springs are also capable of handling much higher lift to handle even the most aggressive of cams. These springs have been compatible with every camshaft we have ever installed.

Our steel retainers offer lightweight, hardened steel alloy construction. This hardening process makes them strong and resilient while still being lighter than OEM, so if you are daily driving or tracking, they are a great choice.
For the all out track engine, our VAC Titanium Retains offer the lightest choice with all out performance in mind.

Our S54 springs have been compatible with every camshaft we have ever installed, even the most aggressive Schricks for the S54
After rigorous testing in our many testbed engines, over 4+ years, they have maintained rates within 2% of spec!
From the reliable and winning results of thousands of these valve springs, we can say confidently they are the best spring available for your BMW at any price.
This kit includes:

• 24 VAC High Performance Dual Valve Springs
• 24 VAC Titanium or Steel Alloy Valve Retainers
• Needed Shims
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Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

HPF posted up last year that were going to offer a "Drag Package" transmission for around $8000.

If your going to be serious about drag racing.. one must ditch the manual transmission altogether and go with an auto/transbrake.

I don't expect the E46 M3 to be a serious drag car until we start seeing TH400's with transbrakes and a Live axle. I thought about it.. but I just wasn't ready to sacrifice track-ability.

Originally Posted by ccsykes

If your going to be serious about drag racing.. one must ditch the manual transmission altogether and go with an auto/transbrake.

I don't expect the E46 M3 to be a serious drag car until we start seeing TH400's with transbrakes and a Live axle. I thought about it.. but I just wasn't ready to sacrifice track-ability.

I really appreciate your enthusaism, and look forward to seeing your car on the track. It's one rare combination: Show car build quality + Track worthiness.

Originally Posted by ccsykes

If your going to be serious about drag racing.. one must ditch the manual transmission altogether and go with an auto/transbrake.

I don't expect the E46 M3 to be a serious drag car until we start seeing TH400's with transbrakes and a Live axle. I thought about it.. but I just wasn't ready to sacrifice track-ability.

Good choice, because then it will be just another 1/4 mile supra-dragster.

Originally Posted by TaZaM3

Gringo do you have a stg 4 HPF M3? Do you have a 76mm turbo S54? Do you have an M3 period? No offense but you've never seen/driven a 76mm S54 so I really don't think you know how they run. We haven't seen big track numbers because no 76mm S54 has really gone to the track ready...

Although I would love to rev to 9000rpm ( I will be raising mine to about 8500 next week during a tuning session) the S54 runs very well with a 76mm turbo. Granted, its a large turbo and has some lag, the S54 handles it pretty well.

http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...90bf99b7-1.jpg

I wonder how much power you would gain with a HPF exhaust manifold?

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

Not because they are dual, but because they have better valve control, the dual springs reduce valve fatigue.

I think I've written a pretty detailed description of valve spring dynamics in another thread here?

Yes you have, I was just wondering why it was stated as an absolute but now I understand, great reduction in valve fatigue.

Originally Posted by DBFIU

Good choice, because then it will be just another 1/4 mile supra-dragster.

Exactly.

Honestly, the M3 should be able to get into the 10's and 9's with the 6 speed manual and a solid rear end.

Originally Posted by TaZaM3

Gringo do you have a stg 4 HPF M3? Do you have a 76mm turbo S54? Do you have an M3 period? No offense but you've never seen/driven a 76mm S54 so I really don't think you know how they run. We haven't seen big track numbers because no 76mm S54 has really gone to the track ready...

Although I would love to rev to 9000rpm ( I will be raising mine to about 8500 next week during a tuning session) the S54 runs very well with a 76mm turbo. Granted, its a large turbo and has some lag, the S54 handles it pretty well.

http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...90bf99b7-1.jpg

Im going to take a guess and say thats a 4th gear pull with bigger tires?

No i dont own one, but i do live 20 mins away from HPF and i have seen a 76mm in action on these cars... and its just like i said... not ideal.... if you could rev it another 1000rpm then it would be much better, that is mainly what i am saying... It is laggy, and given the gear ratios the M3 has the combo just isnt there..

It makes the power, that is for sure..

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

I've put up the numbers before, and I don't think people took it seriously. Heck, the tranny I had in the 330Ci was a $3000 core, with another $3000 in mods.(That's just the box) I find that to be pretty affordable compared to converting to a Jerico 5 speed:

• Jerico 5 speed with custom input shaft for BMW application, and shifter - $8000
• Custom Bell housing (SFI certified) - $2000
• Carbon/Carbon triple plate clutch and flywheel - $6000
• Driveshaft - $1000
• Custom Trans tunnel to fit the tranny - $$$$

That trans tunnel work is not to be underestimated either. If you are starting with a functioning car, and want to end with a functioning car that looks the same in the inside, you could have $10k in installation and fabrication costs.

Then you've got to look at the rear end...which can add up really fast again.

HPF posted up last year that were going to offer a "Drag Package" transmission for around $8000. I just don't see how they could do that, and have something that will last and be competitive. Most of the 600chp cars I know run $5000-$6000 auto transmissions/converters for drag racing, and nothing is custom. For a car to be reliable with 700-1100chp, I think you are looking at spending more than $8000 pretty easily. I know of one car that trashed the ATI 3000 HP Superglide with 1000hp...and that tranny isn't cheap. Of course I could be completely wrong about the drag package; it might do exactly what's needed for the asking price.

If there was enough demand for these cars, someone would make a tranny for them...

PPG/G-Force/Liberty all made Honda dog boxes due to the demand... but IMO i dont see it happening for the E46... just doesnt seem like any interest in drag racing... I still think if one of these cars was to go down the strip with some good tires, launch control and someone who knows how slip the clutch, i could see an easy 10 sec pass out of a 2.5... pre-load the car and slip the clutch if it wheel hops let out... its not a hard concept... $#@! i have stock axles in my car and have over 600 1/4 mile passes on them... have never broken one yet... yet there are people that break them with 180whp lol... its all about how you drive it

Originally Posted by gringotegra

I still think if one of these cars was to go down the strip with some good tires, launch control and someone who knows how slip the clutch, i could see an easy 10 sec pass out of a 2.5... pre-load the car and slip the clutch if it wheel hops let out... its not a hard concept...

Line lock and 2 step set at 5,000 RPM wired together, mash pedal to floor on stage lights, first light load clutch, second light slip clutch, full engagement and release line lock while your grabbing for second. Boyahh..

You should be lightly dragging the fronts the first few feet.. all this happens in about 1.5 seconds.

Originally Posted by 600whp S4

I wonder how much power you would gain with a HPF exhaust manifold?

arent they both made from cast, and i think they look very similar if you see taz's build

Originally Posted by fastgti69

arent they both made from cast, and i think they look very similar if you see taz's build

AA's is log-style cast. HPF's is a design unique to Steed Speed -- basically a cnc'd unequal-length tubular block.

ccsykes, if you don't mind me asking how much did it cost to have vac do your heads (parts included)?

I'm building my 2.5 now and the car is being picked up in about a week (Reliable Carriers isn't so reliable fyi..).. I'm trying to invest in every precaution possible. I'm not as interested in making more power I'm most interested in making the car as absolutely reliable as posisble.

I'm doing the OS Giken, DSS Axles, all new bushings/rtabs/mounts/etc... might as well the car is in pieces.. and would do the heads as well if the cost wasn't to bad.

Originally Posted by Sticky

Exactly.

Honestly, the M3 should be able to get into the 10's and 9's with the 6 speed manual and a solid rear end.

I agree with this... Its all about the launch, driver and track really (power is there)...

Originally Posted by gringotegra

Im going to take a guess and say thats a 4th gear pull with bigger tires?

No i dont own one, but i do live 20 mins away from HPF and i have seen a 76mm in action on these cars... and its just like i said... not ideal.... if you could rev it another 1000rpm then it would be much better, that is mainly what i am saying... It is laggy, and given the gear ratios the M3 has the combo just isnt there..

It makes the power, that is for sure..

What S54 with a 76mm have you seen in action nearby? I guarantee sitting in my car you would feel otherwise. I can shift pretty quickly 1-2-3-4 on the street, it grabs 1st and 2nd hard (you have to be quick however). And now that I have 2 step, anti lag enabled it would get off the lie hard. Regardless I would love to run your car if it were possible. Remember the E36's with the same 76mm turbo making less HP have ran low 9's at 154mph... Not to mention even laggier 2JZ supra's running impressive 1/4 times...

Originally Posted by 600whp S4

I wonder how much power you would gain with a HPF exhaust manifold?

My car has lots of room for power, I dont know how much more power the mani would make but I dont think it would be a big difference. I think the cast mani is doing a pretty good job. Also remember i run a 3.5 inch exhaust with a resonator in the middle, no 4 inch straight pipe here. Also Ive never used race + meth.

Originally Posted by gringotegra

If there was enough demand for these cars, someone would make a tranny for them...

PPG/G-Force/Liberty all made Honda dog boxes due to the demand... but IMO i dont see it happening for the E46... just doesnt seem like any interest in drag racing... I still think if one of these cars was to go down the strip with some good tires, launch control and someone who knows how slip the clutch, i could see an easy 10 sec pass out of a 2.5... pre-load the car and slip the clutch if it wheel hops let out... its not a hard concept... $#@! i have stock axles in my car and have over 600 1/4 mile passes on them... have never broken one yet... yet there are people that break them with 180whp lol... its all about how you drive it

You cannot compare your car to a E46 M3....

Have you done any mods to your P-car?

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

ccsykes, if you don't mind me asking how much did it cost to have vac do your heads (parts included)?

The pricing is on their web site. http://store.vacmotorsports.com/s54-c286.aspx

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

I'm building my 2.5 now and the car is being picked up in about a week (Reliable Carriers isn't so reliable fyi..).. I'm trying to invest in every precaution possible. I'm not as interested in making more power I'm most interested in making the car as absolutely reliable as posisble.

There is no such thing as 600+ WHP and reliable. I fully expect to break something eventually even with the upgraded parts. There is no such thing as reliable at these horsepower levels.