Initial Dyno of Cobb Accessport Tune for the BMW N54

Originally Posted by dOpEdUpM3

So no one has done a full bolt-on with this yet? .. how can everyone be so sure that this is not the best flash ever? lol not saying that it is.

This is just the beginning, no way we can really know yet but another solid option would be great for the N54 market.

Flashes haven't been able to take on the top performance piggyback offerings, why would this be different?

I believe Cobb can richen the mixture where needed to cool down the highest temps and that way can boost a bit higher. Cobb looks very promising.

Looks interesting. Cobb definitely had some of the best tunes when I owned a Subaru, but only time will tell how these turn out.

You only have to look at past history of other platforms and where they've gone. This will be no different.

Regards,

Beemerdamus

Has anyone seen an explanation from Cobb on why they have such widely different dyno results on different platforms? The baselines seem especially inconsistent between platforms.

I assume these are all runs on Mustang dynos installed in their shops and N54 engines??

Cobb's website shows the following (http://accessecu.com/dyno/index.php?...orque=1&gb=0):
Stock WHP Stg1 93 oct WHP Delta
135i: 276 354 +78
335i: 240 313 +73
335xi: 253 336 +83
535i: 229 273 +44

Those dynoes are done in different locations with probably different temperatures and fans so i guess thats why there are differences but the delta is quite similar.

Originally Posted by Doug007

Has anyone seen an explanation from Cobb on why they have such widely different dyno results on different platforms? The baselines seem especially inconsistent between platforms.

I assume these are all runs on Mustang dynos installed in their shops and N54 engines??

Cobb's website shows the following (http://accessecu.com/dyno/index.php?...orque=1&gb=0):
Stock WHP Stg1 93 oct WHP Delta
135i: 276 354 +78
335i: 240 313 +73
335xi: 253 336 +83
535i: 229 273 +44

Originally Posted by Sticky

You mean Cobb doesn't support it? Why wouldn't it support European N54's?

Hello Bimmerboost! First post for COBB Tuning

Although the ECUs may be similar, there is a significant amount of effort and support required for each global region. There are an equal or greater number of the ROMs for each make/model/year in each region as well as different fuel grades to account for. Then calibrations must be developed for each of these vehicles with the appropriate fuel grade, and further testing must be accomplished before the release of the product. Then support must be provided to improve calibrations based on new developments, customer feedback, etc. This is on a region by region bases. At this time, we are focusing on developing our full-tuning-solution for the breadth of N54 based twin-turbo based vehicles in the USDM region before moving on to other world regions. We do not have an ETA for support outside of the USDM at this time.

Thanks!

Gary

Originally Posted by COBB Tuning

This is on a region by region bases. At this time, we are focusing on developing our full-tuning-solution for the breadth of N54 based twin-turbo based vehicles in the USDM region before moving on to other world regions. We do not have an ETA for support outside of the USDM at this time.

Welcome Gary.

Thanks for posting and that makes sense. I understand there is no ETA but nice to see you have not ruled out the rest of the world.

yeah lets hope so !

Hello COBB,
I meet your entry into the N54 world with excitement and trepidation. Excitement b/c you guys are the go to solution for subies and for the GTR. Trepidation b/c I am a former mazdaspeed6 owner and witnessed Christian's ridiculousness in the mazdaspeed3 world. I personally got into arguements with him over whether or not the the throttle plate completely open made power - he argued it closing had no effects. Eventually I believe Cobb relented when you figured out that an open throttle was a necessary part of the power equation but Christian was pretty nasty and at times dishonest.
I'm hopeful that you'll have better success with the n54 as I really like your flash solution and the promise it holds with ATR.
I do know for an absolute fact that when flashed by the accessport the mazdaspeed3/6 ecus did retain remnants of the Cobb flash - even when the AP was uninstalled (unmarried). I know this b/c CP-E found the differences between a flashed and virgin ecu repeatedly. I don't think the remnants caused any harm but I am concerned that the BMW version might do the same and might be detectable by what I would suspect is a more advanced BMW monitoring system at dealerships. Can you please comment on this? Honestly?

Originally Posted by COBB Tuning

Hello Bimmerboost! First post for COBB Tuning

Although the ECUs may be similar, there is a significant amount of effort and support required for each global region. There are an equal or greater number of the ROMs for each make/model/year in each region as well as different fuel grades to account for. Then calibrations must be developed for each of these vehicles with the appropriate fuel grade, and further testing must be accomplished before the release of the product. Then support must be provided to improve calibrations based on new developments, customer feedback, etc. This is on a region by region bases. At this time, we are focusing on developing our full-tuning-solution for the breadth of N54 based twin-turbo based vehicles in the USDM region before moving on to other world regions. We do not have an ETA for support outside of the USDM at this time.

Thanks!

Gary

Thanks for your efforts in N54 platform tune development. The results seem to be very very promising.

What is a disappointment though is that your solutions are available in one country only. Actually it has been easy for all the other tuning companies including both piggybacks and flashes to offer the solutions across markets. I believe you can catch them up in the N54 tuning know how since across market variance is way less than across OBD / DME / ROM versions variance in one market. Also if you support the poor Californian fuel along with the 93oct, you have covered more global octanes that would be needed really In my eyes at least running 99RON which is slightly higher octane than US 93oct....

Still one question, if I have bought 335i in Germany and have it in US in March, is that considered to be USDM?

The reason I'm asking is because I've been thinking that the ISTA versions are the same if the numbering is the same. If you are aware of any differences in ROMs even if their ISTA version number is the same, please share. Thanks.

I have always thought the ROM (=ISTA) versions are global and same since their numbering is the same globally.

Originally Posted by boom

Hello COBB,
I meet your entry into the N54 world with excitement and trepidation. Excitement b/c you guys are the go to solution for subies and for the GTR. Trepidation b/c I am a former mazdaspeed6 owner and witnessed Christian's ridiculousness in the mazdaspeed3 world. I personally got into arguements with him over whether or not the the throttle plate completely open made power - he argued it closing had no effects. Eventually I believe Cobb relented when you figured out that an open throttle was a necessary part of the power equation but Christian was pretty nasty and at times dishonest.
I'm hopeful that you'll have better success with the n54 as I really like your flash solution and the promise it holds with ATR.
I do know for an absolute fact that when flashed by the accessport the mazdaspeed3/6 ecus did retain remnants of the Cobb flash - even when the AP was uninstalled (unmarried). I know this b/c CP-E found the differences between a flashed and virgin ecu repeatedly. I don't think the remnants caused any harm but I am concerned that the BMW version might do the same and might be detectable by what I would suspect is a more advanced BMW monitoring system at dealerships. Can you please comment on this? Honestly?

now this is a post..

Originally Posted by 654

Thanks for your efforts in N54 platform tune development. The results seem to be very very promising.

What is a disappointment though is that your solutions are available in one country only. Actually it has been easy for all the other tuning companies including both piggybacks and flashes to offer the solutions across markets. I believe you can catch them up in the N54 tuning know how since across market variance is way less than across OBD / DME / ROM versions variance in one market. Also if you support the poor Californian fuel along with the 93oct, you have covered more global octanes that would be needed really In my eyes at least running 99RON which is slightly higher octane than US 93oct....

654,

We certainly understand the disappointment that the immediate unavailability of the AccessPORT outside of the UDSM region is causing. We are new to BMW and we want to methodically roll out a solution that will perform the way we expect it to and be able to support the product at the level we feel our customers deserve. We have found ourselves in situations where we have overextended ourselves and the product and support suffers for all. We have learned from that and have since reorganized our company and restructured our product offering in order to provide the focus and support we feel each platform needs.

We want to support other regions with the AccessPORT. We just don't have an ETA on when that will be based on the other work that needs to get done first.

Thanks,

Gary

Originally Posted by COBB Tuning

654,

We certainly understand the disappointment that the immediate unavailability of the AccessPORT outside of the UDSM region is causing. We are new to BMW and we want to methodically roll out a solution that will perform the way we expect it to and be able to support the product at the level we feel our customers deserve. We have found ourselves in situations where we have overextended ourselves and the product and support suffers for all. We have learned from that and have since reorganized our company and restructured our product offering in order to provide the focus and support we feel each platform needs.

We want to support other regions with the AccessPORT. We just don't have an ETA on when that will be based on the other work that needs to get done first.

Thanks,

Gary

Thanks Gary,

I hope and believe you will find larger market area feasible quite soon just as your competition has found it already on this platform. Looking forward to it.

Originally Posted by boom

Hello COBB,
I meet your entry into the N54 world with excitement and trepidation. Excitement b/c you guys are the go to solution for subies and for the GTR. Trepidation b/c I am a former mazdaspeed6 owner and witnessed Christian's ridiculousness in the mazdaspeed3 world. I personally got into arguements with him over whether or not the the throttle plate completely open made power - he argued it closing had no effects. Eventually I believe Cobb relented when you figured out that an open throttle was a necessary part of the power equation but Christian was pretty nasty and at times dishonest.
I'm hopeful that you'll have better success with the n54 as I really like your flash solution and the promise it holds with ATR.
I do know for an absolute fact that when flashed by the accessport the mazdaspeed3/6 ecus did retain remnants of the Cobb flash - even when the AP was uninstalled (unmarried). I know this b/c CP-E found the differences between a flashed and virgin ecu repeatedly. I don't think the remnants caused any harm but I am concerned that the BMW version might do the same and might be detectable by what I would suspect is a more advanced BMW monitoring system at dealerships. Can you please comment on this? Honestly?

I am sorry you had such a negative experience with our company. We feel that this type of experience is unacceptable. We made mistakes with MAZDASPEED enthusiasts along the way. We have learned from those mistakes and are determined not to make them again. We take customer service very seriously and have recently adopted a very thorough company-wide internal customer service training program with the mission of providing the best end-to-end customer experience in the market. Once again, I am sorry that we did not live up to your expectations in the past and sincerely appreciate the opportunity to earn your business in the future. Thank you for your feedback.

Regarding the AccessPORT leaving traces on the ECU after install, we have not received any reports from our customers of a dealership identifying that there was a previous reflash once the AccessPORT was completely uninstalled. The AccessPORT downloads the OEM ROM and stores it during install. When the AccessPORT is uninstalled, it restores the saved OEM ROM, leaving behind none of the AccessPORT related parameters. The only incidents we are aware of where dealerships detected a flash is when the vehicle owner mistakenly flashed a stock-like map with the AccessPORT still married to the ECU instead of running the uninstall process.

Our top ECU reverse engineers are unable to detect any differences between a new ECU and an ECU that has had the AccessPORT installed and uninstalled. If you could provide additional information regarding what differences were found in the ECUs and the processes used, we would certainly be interested in learning about it.

We know that this is a significant concern to our customers and we spend quite a lot of time testing this for every platform we support with the AccessPORT. Rob, our BMW ECU reverse engineer, has a contact that is a BMW technician test the ECU with BMW's tools to see if anything is detectable with the AccessPORT installed as well as uninstalled. We will let everyone know what we learn from this testing.

Thanks!

Gary

Originally Posted by COBB Tuning

I am sorry you had such a negative experience with our company. We feel that this type of experience is unacceptable. We made mistakes with MAZDASPEED enthusiasts along the way. We have learned from those mistakes and are determined not to make them again. We take customer service very seriously and have recently adopted a very thorough company-wide internal customer service training program with the mission of providing the best end-to-end customer experience in the market. Once again, I am sorry that we did not live up to your expectations in the past and sincerely appreciate the opportunity to earn your business in the future. Thank you for your feedback.

Damn, someone could run for political office.

My tuner, who I trust completely, has worked with Cobb before and speaks highly of their approach to tuning and business in general.

Unrelated to Cobb's AP or any other device, comparing engine output from piggybacks vs flash tunes makes little sense. The real comparison is between the tunes themselves. The mixture of compressed air and fuel ignited at a point in time has no knowledge of whether it was a piggyback or a flash that set boost level, caused the injector to open and close or the spark plug to fire. All that really matters to power and drivability is how correctly and seamlessly air, fuel, and spark are managed.

However, even the stuff that isn't measurable on a dyno matters to enthusiasts who want to build a solid, well modded car. For instance, commanding timing that causes knock and relying on knock sensors to pull timing is a great way to make a failed knock sensor cost you an engine. (Unless the knock sensor fails in a manner detectable by the ECU which notices and goes into limp mode. Every time.) Similarly, disabling error checking can result in undetected loss of data integrity. As Cobb mentions on their web site, this is not a desirable situation, particularly in a throttle by wire setup. Even fueling should be commanded slightly richer than ideal so that fuel trimming pulls fuel rather than adding it. (Think O2 sensor failure, failure mode, detection by ECU, consequence of running a bit rich rather than a bit lean, etc.)

I've ordered an AP and will be happy to post a review. My car is a Canadian model, so we'll find out if the USDM AP works for all of North America as is. If not, I'll wait until Canadian cars are supported.

Cheers,
Dan

Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6

wish it showed a/f.. 15 psi is pretty high for bone stock

Here you go, and I don't want hear anything about only fairies being able to grant wishes!

Dan

Originally Posted by GTR-Dad

I've ordered an AP and will be happy to post a review. My car is a Canadian model, so we'll find out if the USDM AP works for all of North America as is.

This would be much appreciated.