• Supercharged E92 M3 showdown - ESS VT2-625 DCT M3 versus VF-Engineering VF620 6-speed manual M3

                    
      		   
      Published on 01-08-2013 04:51 PM
      4 Comments Comments
      Here is a race video between two supercharged E9X M3's running competing kits. One is a DCT (dual clutch transmission) M3 and that is the camera car with the ESS VT2-625 kit. The manual M3 has the VF-Engineering VF620 supercharger kit. This is a very evenly matched race as to be expected from two kits offering very similar performance. The manual has a slight jump and the DCT appears to reel it in somewhat although the race simply ends up basically a draw.


      A very nice run but it would be great to see more than one race between these two. Regardless, it goes to show kits on the stock internals will basically end up in the same spot with fuel, boost, timing, etc., being the main differences especially among similar Vortech based superchargers. Despite what certain companies may say, the kits are very close to one another.

      Camera car with DCT and ESS VT2-625 kit has a 91/100 mix. The VF car is also said to be a 91/100 mix.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS 625 DCT E92 M3 VS VF620 6MT E92 M3 started by LostMarine View original post
      Comments 44 Comments
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-19-2013, 10:34 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well then that is definitely unfair if true. Please post your second race.
        Second race starts around 1:06.

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 01-19-2013, 11:23 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Second race starts around 1:06.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9vpfsuA4aA
        What happened to the VF car in the second race? Looks like he missed a gear and then it was just over.
      1. Wagdaddy's Avatar
        Wagdaddy - 01-20-2013, 01:51 AM
        i heard that the driver in the blue car missed a gear during this run as well. not saying it was fact as i wasnt there but i heard from a buddy who was there. i assume this is Joes car correct? if not than this comment is pointless lol another question though (little off topic) what rpm is a 6 speed car at when driving 40mph and what rpm is a dct car at when driving at 40mph
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 01-20-2013, 03:04 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wagdaddy Click here to enlarge
        what rpm is a 6 speed car at when driving 40mph and what rpm is a dct car at when driving at 40mph
        DCT is geared shorter in second, will be at higher rpm.
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 10:12 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wagdaddy Click here to enlarge
        i heard that the driver in the blue car missed a gear during this run as well. not saying it was fact as i wasnt there but i heard from a buddy who was there. i assume this is Joes car correct? if not than this comment is pointless lol another question though (little off topic) what rpm is a 6 speed car at when driving 40mph and what rpm is a dct car at when driving at 40mph
        Yes Joe's car but that is not true. I asked Joe right after the race. He said that the 2-3 shift was clean. No slow shift...no wheel spin.

        As you guys can see we were fairly even until he had to shift. Shows that both cars are making about the same HP/weight. Joe has a little more HP, but is carrying a little more weight as well.

        DCT here is key. Even on MDM, the DCT shift is so much faster that it makes a significant difference.
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 10:16 AM
        I have registered for the next Airstrip Event "No Fly Zone" March 2nd in Bakersfield (Sticky aren't you the Forum sponsor)? Hopefully everyone will be able to make it and we can have a great time and get some good runs in. Then LM can sit behind his computer and edit away on the vids and make his own reality.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 01-20-2013, 11:32 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Yes Joe's car but that is not true. I asked Joe right after the race. He said that the 2-3 shift was clean. No slow shift...no wheel spin.
        Come on man, you aren't blowing another SC'd car away as the first race shows when accelerating at speed.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        As you guys can see we were fairly even until he had to shift.
        Yep, acceleration performance looks similar until the shift where everything fell apart.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        DCT here is key. Even on MDM, the DCT shift is so much faster that it makes a significant difference.
        Speaking from personal experience it isn't THAT big. You aren't putting bus lengths on another SC car with a similar kit.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine - 01-20-2013, 11:53 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Wrong. The blue car had wheels and a couple tools...less than 100 lbs. in the trunk.

        wheels and tools is over 100lbs, closer to 200, if not more..

        In the first vid, I started in 3rd gear at 40 mph and the blue M3 started in 2nd gear. I also hit the rev limiter as I was pulling just before the finish line.

        Did you guys not see the second race? We both started in 2nd gear and I put 5 cars on it.
        no, i chopped it as per your guidelines of not posting videos where one car has a bad start or mis-shift.. remember..

        The blue M3 dyno'd at 580 wheel on 91 octane and 603 wheel with some MS 109.


        Figures that LM would try to distort the record.
        huh? how, read above. i took your own postings and aded them in here, and abided by your guidelines.. you obviously have no qualms with posting this video, as i borrowed it from you. but i thought it was more practical to live by your own belief and not show bad runs.. i mean.. thats what you said about shift sector right..
        odd..
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine - 01-20-2013, 12:04 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        LM can sit behind his computer and edit away on the vids and make his own reality.
        oddly, you have 1 day runs, where videos are collected, and distributed as vendors see fit, and now -IM- the one sitting back? funny.. lets talk about reality:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Thanks, but unfortunately my M3 is in Cali and we don't have 93 octane here so I have to go with the ESS 600 kit.

        well, isnt it now a 625 kit by accident?
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Yeah I raced him with my VT625 kit + catless + 95 octane making 567 RWHP uncorrected and he put a few bus lengths on me on a 40-160 roll. Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        I didn't post my first runs against you, Sergey and Eric. I was in the right lane and for all three runs, spun 2nd so badly it immediately hit fuel cut-off and the car lost all momentum, and then I shifted into third gear. So basically for all of those runs I started behind you guys in third gear at around 50 mph....which on the S65 platform is waaay low in the powerband. All you guys put 5+ cars on me on those runs. I didn't post other runs where the same thing happened to my competitors
        well how about that.. who makes up their own reality?
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 01:52 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        odd..
        just two wheels...not four...and a couple pounds of tools. The second race was CLEAN as stated by Joe. No mis-shift and no spin from what HE said.

        Why don't you ask me or Joe before you chop up my vid and post nothing but speculation.
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 01:54 PM
        The reality is I ordered and paid for a VT2 600 kit since the 625 kit was rated at 93 octane. But guess what...ESS changed the 625 kit (right around the point where I ordered my kit) to accept 91 octane and SENT me a 625 kit but didn't tell me. Go ask Roman. Go ask Malek at MRF Engineering who installed the kit. We found out as I was measuring the pulley to determine the size...and Roman told me it was already the pulley for the 625 kit.
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 01:57 PM
        Regarding the runs against Eric and Sergey, so what? I spun badly. We had rematch runs with no wheel spin which were posted. I spun badly against Terry and unfortunately he didn't attend Day 2 so we didn't rematch. All of this was posted. Nothing going on here but your wild imagination.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine - 01-20-2013, 04:49 PM
        its kool "bra"

        public can choose which "reality" we live in on their own...
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 07:25 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        its kool "bra"

        public can choose which "reality" we live in on their own...
        The only "reality" here is you took a vid of mine and cut out the part that you didn't like. And then on the first vid you didn't bother to introduce the facts which were that I started in 3rd gear and the blue M3 started in 2nd gear on a 40 mph roll on. Regarding the second vid which you are now saying you edited out because it wasn't "clean"...complete BS. The FACT is there was no mis-shift and no spin. It was a CLEAN run as reported by Joe himself. Regardless, my car will be that the March 2nd Airstrip Event and I'll post the vids and then you can edit away.

        You are a true "Internet" warrior "bra". Not the North Shore crew that typically uses the term "bra" with me.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine - 01-20-2013, 07:31 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        I believe the camera car belongs to a forum member. As this forum member is against posting video's of cars that have/had a bad start, I took the liberty of editing it to showcase just the good run:
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        I didn't post other runs where the same thing happened to my competitors

        oh, im sorry, did i not state what i was doing when i posted it? did i not follow your logic? It was a clean run? i fail to see how a bad shift is a clean run, but hey, apparently you and I are in a different "reality"..

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        You are a true "Internet" warrior "bra"
        lol, riiiiiiight.. pretty sure your projecting there.. either way, anxious to see your 5 psi, i mean 7 psi, i mean 8 psi ess 600 i mean, ess 625, i mean ess 650 car run Click here to enlarge
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 08:22 PM
        Actually ESS "675". Going under the knife next Thursday Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine - 01-20-2013, 08:35 PM
        we wont be surprised when it "accidentally" becomes a 725 though Click here to enlarge
      1. longboarder's Avatar
        longboarder - 01-20-2013, 10:23 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        we wont be surprised when it "accidentally" becomes a 725 though Click here to enlarge
        Just raising the rev limit and reducing unsprung weight for the March Airstrip event. Doing suspension and BBK as well for track season. This thing is awesome at the track already. Going in a straight line is comparatively so boring.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 01-21-2013, 12:10 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        ESS changed the 625 kit (right around the point where I ordered my kit) to accept 91 octane and SENT me a 625 kit but didn't tell me.
        That's kind of an odd communication breakdown isn't it? I mean I wouldn't complain about getting something better but I mean getting sent what you didn't buy or at least not being told changes were made is a little concerning.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 01-21-2013, 12:11 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
        Just raising the rev limit and reducing unsprung weight for the March Airstrip event. Doing suspension and BBK as well for track season. This thing is awesome at the track already. Going in a straight line is comparatively so boring.
        GermanBoost is the forum sponsor for the event, see you there.
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