• Tuned Mercedes M278 Twin Turbo on par with a tuned BMW S85 V10? EVotech tuned E60 M5 versus PP-P Performance W218 CLS500/550

                    
      		   
      Published on 11-26-2012 12:32 PM
      1 Comment Comments
      The BMW E60 M5 in stock form is stronger than the new twin turbo 550 models from Mercedes and its strength really is the top end. Well, the new Twin Turbo motors are changing the game as this video shows as with a tune the M278 V8 is not only on par with an S85 V10 but one that also is tuned. Turbos definitely make that possible. In stock form the M278 puts out about 40 less wheel horsepower than the BMW S85 V10 which is in the 420 wheel horsepower range stock.


      With a tune however, Renntech has shown the M278 can get up to the 480 wheel range. This is just a bit more than the S85 V10 can hit with just a tune. The end result is two tune only cars that are fairly evenly matched as the video below shows. The M278 definitely is an impressive motor.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: '12 CLS550 vs E60 M5.. started by 5soko View original post
      Comments 13 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-26-2012, 12:34 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        But the BIG picture IS, a NON AMG car with a tune is now a competitor to M's.

        I hope BMW raises the bar SOON.
        It's not really a competitor it's a tuned car that can run similar in a straight line. Is a Mitsubishi EVO an AMG competitors because tuned ones could keep up with AMG's?

        BMW has raised the bar significantly with their turbo motors. This car is running an M5 that is now outdated. It would be like a new 550i with a tune beating up on an older E55.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 - 11-26-2012, 02:25 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not really a competitor it's a tuned car that can run similar in a straight line. Is a Mitsubishi EVO an AMG competitors because tuned ones could keep up with AMG's?

        BMW has raised the bar significantly with their turbo motors. This car is running an M5 that is now outdated. It would be like a new 550i with a tune beating up on an older E55.
        Hey my friend, I know what you are saying, but to be fair I don't see any 2012 35 series tuned only beating up on an old AMG?

        If you can show me a tuned only 335, 535, 135, beating an E55, SL, S or ANY AMG I would be more inclined to agree with you.

        Otherwise, BMW better get their act together for their tomorrow, IMHO.

        PS: I love the idea that you are already writing off the V10 engineClick here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena - 11-26-2012, 02:31 PM
        Turbo's make things unfair.

        Nice sig OP BTW, the ML looks nice. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-26-2012, 03:14 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        but to be fair I don't see any 2012 35 series tuned only beating up on an old AMG?
        A tuned N54 will run with an E55. The 550's will as well just like this car did.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Otherwise, BMW better get their act together for their tomorrow, IMHO.
        But the new M5 is faster than the E63... and puts out more power than even the E63 with the performance package. And it has a dual clutch transmission...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        PS: I love the idea that you are already writing off the V10 engine
        Not at all it's the better motor it just happens to be naturally aspirated which is working against it for straight power potential. With a little boost...
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P - 11-26-2012, 08:38 PM
        Really curious to see what this race would have looked like with an M157? LOL
      1. E90SoFlo's Avatar
        E90SoFlo - 11-26-2012, 08:42 PM
        not to be rude, but the 335 eats M3's... Maybe i was missing the point
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-26-2012, 10:05 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
        Really curious to see what this race would have looked like with an M157? LOL
        Bus lengths.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-26-2012, 10:05 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
        not to be rude, but the 335 eats M3's... Maybe i was missing the point
        Doesn't eat them, don't be absurd.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 - 11-27-2012, 11:45 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        1. A tuned N54 will run with an E55. The 550's will as well just like this car did.



        2. But the new M5 is faster than the E63... and puts out more power than even the E63 with the performance package. And it has a dual clutch transmission...



        3.Not at all it's the better motor it just happens to be naturally aspirated which is working against it for straight power potential. With a little boost...
        1. Are you sure about that one my friend? After we are talking TUNE only, no down pipes, HE, etc, etc.

        2. I looked it up and yes you are correct, by 3 horsepowerClick here to enlarge Just sayin. Note: 0-100km are the same at 4.3.

        3. Well, this was the one that moved me away from BMW in the first place. Have to love the boost. In ANY form. I loved my whipples for over 15 years, but twin snails have grown on me as of lateClick here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-27-2012, 11:48 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        1. Are you sure about that one my friend? After we are talking TUNE only, no down pipes, HE, etc, etc.
        Yes, with E85 and such now they are getting close to 400's to the wheels.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        2. I looked it up and yes you are correct, by 3 horsepower Just sayin. Note: 0-100km are the same at 4.3.
        0-60 is a traction limited stat. The M5 is the faster car stock than the E63 and as stated does put out more power with a faster transmission.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        3. Well, this was the one that moved me away from BMW in the first place. Have to love the boost. In ANY form. I loved my whipples for over 15 years, but twin snails have grown on me as of late
        They went for fuel economy and such. I'm a big fan of the naturally aspirated motors, kind of boring everyone is now doing the same thing.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 - 11-27-2012, 02:57 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        1. Yes, with E85 and such now they are getting close to 400's to the wheels.



        2. 0-60 is a traction limited stat. The M5 is the faster car stock than the E63 and as stated does put out more power with a faster transmission.



        3. They went for fuel economy and such. I'm a big fan of the naturally aspirated motors, kind of boring everyone is now doing the same thing.

        Come on Joe, on #1 is E85 and other things really tuned only? I have a friend on another board that ran 11.78 with an E55 TUNE only. Okay sticky tires, but NO pulley, HE, race gas, etc, etc.

        2. So are you saying that the M5 is MORE traction limited than an E63, REALLY?

        3. Sorry, I have, and ALWAYS will be a BIG believer in FI, just like my AOL name suggests, LOL

        Anyway not busting your stones my friend, but I am VERY impressed with the new MB, and THANK you BMW for finally seeing the light with FI, IMHO.

        ENOUGH PICKERY, LETS DRINK!!!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 11-27-2012, 03:23 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        2. So are you saying that the M5 is MORE traction limited than an E63, REALLY?
        No I'm saying the stat is traction limited as a whole, it's pretty much useless these days.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Come on Joe, on #1 is E85 and other things really tuned only? I have a friend on another board that ran 11.78 with an E55 TUNE only. Okay sticky tires, but NO pulley, HE, race gas, etc, etc.
        I'm just saying the twin turbo BMW's are quite strong. Obviously the 335i is not an M car and is positioned beneath them but the fact it can run with an E55's depending on on the mods and then some is pretty impressive. So not sure what you mean by BMW needs to up their game, their current forced induction offerings are just fine and stronger than Mercedes'.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        3. Sorry, I have, and ALWAYS will be a BIG believer in FI, just like my AOL name suggests, LOL
        I like FI I just like forced induction with a motor that is efficient without boost as well. Like a supercharger on an M3 for example, like my car.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Anyway not busting your stones my friend, but I am VERY impressed with the new MB, and THANK you BMW for finally seeing the light with FI, IMHO.
        Don't think you are busting my balls at all, just a discussion. IMO these moves are for MPG and for lowering costs across the board.
      1. Stucks's Avatar
        Stucks - 11-27-2012, 08:19 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Come on Joe, on #1 is E85 and other things really tuned only? I have a friend on another board that ran 11.78 with an E55 TUNE only. Okay sticky tires, but NO pulley, HE, race gas, etc, etc.
        So it ran 11.80 with sticky tires and a tune? I've seen w211 e55's run 12.0 bone stock. Tires and tune didnt really do that much it seems...Whereas with an N54 car, its possible that you can go from being a low 13 second car to around a 12.1 car with just tune and e85. There was a guy a while ago that went 12.0 @ 115 with just a tune and gas, street tires. This was on the old jb3 tune too. Some of these tune+e85 N54 cars are putting out 415whp, which is more or less the same power e55's put down stock, with about 400-500 pounds less weight. Meth/intake filter/tune cars were doing the same thing and same times 2 years ago.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Anyway not busting your stones my friend, but I am VERY impressed with the new MB, and THANK you BMW for finally seeing the light with FI, IMHO.
        I am impressed with the new mb cars as well. Very fast.