• BimmerBoost gets the first F10 M5 S63tu twin turbo V8 dyno sheet - MAHA dyno shows 573.7 BHP and 19% drivetrain loss

                    
      		   
      Published on 12-14-2011 11:46 PM
      22 Comments Comments
      Here is the first dyno sheet for the F10 M5 courtesy of PP-P performance. They have a MAHA dyno and since this type of dyno is not prevalent in the USA we are just getting familiar with reading these graphs. The green line shows the drivetrain loss which is calculated by this dyno at 19%. Red is power and blue is torque, fairly simple. The dyno automatically corrects out the BHP using the SAE J 1349 standard and it calculated the F10 M5 as underrated putting out 573.7 horsepower.

      We kind of like this dyno as it calculated drivetrain loss as a multiplication instead of a set percentage. The outdated and erroneous thinking on the topic is that a car has a certain percentage of drivetrain loss which it does not as it depends on the RPM as well as gearing. You have to know what your loss is at what your peak HP is or else the numbers are completely arbitrary. We calculated the drivetrain loss here based on the drag HP as calculated by the dyno. What one calculates as drivetrain loss will vary dyno to dyno and RPM to RPM, something to remember as it is not uniform even though the components are static.

      Factory crank numbers are calculated using SAE J 1349 so no matter what car you throw on the MAHA dyno it will readout to the manufacturer standard. In this case BMW underrated it just a bit. It will be interesting to see how this graph compares to the dynojet graphs we are used to in the USA due to the large sample size of dynojet graphs available to compare to. We hope this helps a bit in understanding how dyno's, drivetrain loss, crank, and wheel HP can all vary and it is important to understand the various factors involved before coming to a conclusion.



      Here is an example graph that should help in reading MAHA dyno's in the future:

      This article was originally published in forum thread: BimmerBoost gets the first F10 M5 N63tu twin turbo V8 dyno sheet - MAHA dyno shows 573.7 BHP and 19% drivetrain loss started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 22 Comments
      1. DarkPhantom's Avatar
        DarkPhantom - 12-15-2011, 12:11 AM
        444 rwhp? Not bad...but it's heavy, iirc...~4300lbs??
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 12:18 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DarkPhantom Click here to enlarge
        444 rwhp? Not bad...but it's heavy, iirc...~4300lbs??
        It's 444 rwhp on the MAHA, it will be around ~470 on a dynojet.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 12:38 AM
        This might also help @Exeenom understand drivetrain loss a bit better Click here to enlarge
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 - 12-15-2011, 01:00 AM
        Honestly, having a good understanding of physics and math (at least, I would hope) - this is how a dyno result sheet should read. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 01:01 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Honestly, having a good understanding of physics and math (at least, I would hope) - this is how a dyno result sheet should read. Click here to enlarge
        Yep. I hated these dynos at first but now I'm starting to get it.

        #s63tu
      1. JAWS Motorsport's Avatar
        JAWS Motorsport - 12-15-2011, 03:18 AM
        Dyno is a tool for adjusting in my world, i rather use the clock Click here to enlarge since every bench seems to be diffrent and who says the MAHA is the grand daddy of them all? Performancebox for the win!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 03:51 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
        Dyno is a tool for adjusting in my world, i rather use the clock Click here to enlarge since every bench seems to be diffrent and who says the MAHA is the grand daddy of them all? Performancebox for the win!
        All part of a picture Click here to enlarge Ultimately, this site gives greatest credit to performance achievements on the track.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz - 12-15-2011, 07:02 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's 444 rwhp on the MAHA, it will be around ~470 on a dynojet.
        yea that sounds about right....the CTS-V is about 445-450whp on a dynojet and rated 556 at the crank
      1. SLS AMG's Avatar
        SLS AMG - 12-15-2011, 11:41 AM
        So Mr.China (Aka Oliver from Evotech), did jimmy steal this tune file from you too as you claim? Click here to enlargeI believe notOh.....wait a minute. I FORGOT THAT YOU HAVEN'T TUNED AN F10 M5 YET Click here to enlarge
      1. dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks's Avatar
        dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks - 12-15-2011, 02:45 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
        Dyno is a tool for adjusting in my world, i rather use the clock Click here to enlarge since every bench seems to be diffrent and who says the MAHA is the grand daddy of them all? Performancebox for the win!
        performancebox ftmfw! Click here to enlarge
      1. evolve's Avatar
        evolve - 12-15-2011, 04:26 PM
        A proper dyno graph!How close to stock FLYWHEEL figures is that?Thanks for posting.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 04:28 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        So Mr.China (Aka Oliver from Evotech), did jimmy steal this tune file from you too as you claim? Click here to enlargeI believe notOh.....wait a minute. I FORGOT THAT YOU HAVEN'T TUNED AN F10 M5 YET Click here to enlarge
        Not necessary.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 04:29 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
        A proper dyno graph!How close to stock FLYWHEEL figures is that?Thanks for posting.
        Pretty close to the stock flywheel figures...
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom - 12-15-2011, 04:40 PM
        19% drivetrain loss seems like a reasonable figure and I would expect the loss percentage for it's AMG twin to be similar as well. I believe most companies use 18% to 20% as a general figure then they narrow it down based on their research and development data. I do prefer track results though and this car has done very well thus far. I think the battles between the W212 E63 AMG and the F10 M5 will be epic Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-15-2011, 04:42 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        19% drivetrain loss seems like a reasonable figure and I would expect the loss percentage for it's AMG twin to be similar as well. I believe most companies use 18% to 20% as a general figure then they narrow it down based on their research and development data. I do prefer track results though and this car has done very well thus far. I think the battles between the W212 E63 AMG and the F10 M5 will be epic Click here to enlarge
        It's 19% loss at peak... notice how the loss changes.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom - 12-15-2011, 07:34 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's 19% loss at peak... notice how the loss changes.
        Of course it changes.... I doubt anybody thought the loss is the same across the entire rpm range Click here to enlarge I believe most companies use the 18 or 19 percent figure implying that the loss is up to that number, as they base their calculations off the peak hp not the hp at 1000 rpm or 2000 rpm etc... Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-16-2011, 02:41 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Of course it changes.... I doubt anybody thought the loss is the same across the entire rpm range Click here to enlarge I believe most companies use the 18 or 19 percent figure implying that the loss is up to that number, as they base their calculations off the peak hp not the hp at 1000 rpm or 2000 rpm etc... Click here to enlarge
        You can't base that % on every correction factor or dyno, that is the point.
      1. evolve's Avatar
        evolve - 12-16-2011, 04:20 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You can't base that % on every correction factor or dyno, that is the point.


        The percentage of the drivetrain loss has nothing to do with the correction factor.

        The 553hp is the uncorrected flywheel figure as is the 444hp wheel figure.

        109hp is the loss peak through the transmission.

        That's a percentage of 19%

        Now that's pretty much the same as we all see on our machines which calculate flywheel on all of the M Power 2WD cars.

        The Maha like many other machines is physically measuring the drivetrain loss.

        And guess what.... it's so close to stock figures it's funny.

        The corrected figure is higher only because the dyno thinks the engine should be making more power based on the conditions. However, SAE corrections can be a little OTT based on experience. On this particular test the correction factor is very positive (1.035 = + 3.5%).

        The uncorrected figures are actually what's happened and the corrected is what the SAE correction factor thinks it should be.

        Over time hopefully we will see more graphs from the Maha on days where the SAE correction is negative so we can compare the actual with the calculated. From this we can see if the S63 responds to the SAE corrections like SAE think the engine should respond.
      1. flipm3's Avatar
        flipm3 - 12-16-2011, 05:38 PM
        Thanks for sharing! The US seriously needs more MAHA Dynos for some of the most accurate dyne measurements.

        Good stuff. I can't wait for the F10 M5 to hit US shores. I seriously need to finish the academic chapter of my life so I can get one of these bad boys in the garage...then let Evolve tune it, haha.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
        The percentage of the drivetrain loss has nothing to do with the correction factor.

        The 553hp is the uncorrected flywheel figure as is the 444hp wheel figure.

        109hp is the loss peak through the transmission.

        That's a percentage of 19%

        Now that's pretty much the same as we all see on our machines which calculate flywheel on all of the M Power 2WD cars.

        The Maha like many other machines is physically measuring the drivetrain loss.

        And guess what.... it's so close to stock figures it's funny.

        The corrected figure is higher only because the dyno thinks the engine should be making more power based on the conditions. However, SAE corrections can be a little OTT based on experience. On this particular test the correction factor is very positive (1.035 = + 3.5%).

        The uncorrected figures are actually what's happened and the corrected is what the SAE correction factor thinks it should be.

        Over time hopefully we will see more graphs from the Maha on days where the SAE correction is negative so we can compare the actual with the calculated. From this we can see if the S63 responds to the SAE corrections like SAE think the engine should respond.
        The way some of us calculated drivetrain loss was affected by the correction factor used as that would shift the drivetrain loss %.

        I would like to see MAHA graphs with different correction as well. I find this particular dyno pretty interesting.
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