Car and Driver 997 GT2 RS vs. McLaren MP4-12C vs. Ferrari 458 Italia

In my opinion,

The 997 can't really win because it's... a 997. A car ending it's production run.

However, for many the Porsche will always be the most "exciting" and with a proper set of slicks we all know what GTx Porsche's are capable of. Cya later.

Again, in my opinion
A car without any soul...something which Jason Plato, Tiff Needell, Richard Hammond, now Car and Driver etc. have all agreed on cannot win either. Especially when the price difference is 300k vs 330k..
BLAH if you ask me...

however, I can understand why they might've picked the McLaren. It's the technology leader- small high revving turbo motor of the future and simply put, it IS a good bit faster than the 458 on a track and in a straight line. Also the comfort factor. That's what it really boils down too. Comfort or soul. Car and driver went to the soft side this time

Originally Posted by onurleft

The 997 can't really win because it's... a 997. A car ending it's production run.

What does when production ends have to do with anything? The best 911 variant traditionally roles around toward the end of production.

Originally Posted by onurleft

A car without any soul...something which Jason Plato, Tiff Needell, Richard Hammond, now Car and Driver etc. have all agreed on cannot win either. Especially when the price difference is 300k vs 330k..

Exactly my point.

Originally Posted by onurleft

Car and driver went to the soft side this time

I think they went way too soft and it makes for a review that doesn't satisfy with mixed messages.

I think the point of the end of the production run simply means that with a new generation of the 911 set to bow... A redo with the new car could yield better results.

I've driven every 911 model since 89 and I have always loved their ability to be an all around drivers toy. Especially the latter cars, the 458 is awesome and I do like the motor. Not overly excited by its styling nor the auto trans (yes auto cause no clutch to me equals auto before anyone goes down that road again). I enjoy shifting the gears myself, I wouldnt buy one but enjoyed driving it.

The McLaren is a mystery, I've sat in a pre production model and gotten a ride in that same model. But I have not driven it so no opinion other than its smaller than I thought and it has limited exhaust sounds. Of the three there the 911 in GT2 RS form would be my weapon of choice.

The 130+ trap speeds are insane!!

Originally Posted by MSIZZLE

The 130+ trap speeds are insane!!

Especially for a magazine.

Originally Posted by Sticky

What does when production ends have to do with anything? The best 911 variant traditionally roles around toward the end of production.

And when did the other cars begin production? The car isn't really the best suit here outside of it's numbers. The 997 came out 7 years ago, the technology is hardly comparable and it's a heavy technology/comfort emphasized test. Why waste a chance to test the GT2 RS here when car and driver could use it in a super-lap battle or something more directly comparable... I'd prefer to see it against an R8 GT V10, now that makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by onurleft

And when did the other cars begin production? The car isn't really the best suit here outside of it's numbers. The 997 came out 7 years ago, the technology is hardly comparable and it's a heavy technology/comfort emphasized test. Why waste a chance to test the GT2 RS here when car and driver could use it in a super-lap battle or something more directly comparable... I'd prefer to see it against an R8 GT V10, now that makes sense to me.

The car has all the latest technology just on a slightly older chassis that is modified highly anyway. A platform can evolve, the 911 has been doing it for 30+ years. It's totally comparable as it is the highest performance 997 variant. It will also outperform the next generation 911 for some time until that platform gets a GT2 or GT2 RS. It does not have the same cost constrictions the earlier cars had so the argument can be made the 997 could have been much better. Also, updated technology and design can go on a platform released earlier.

What does this really have to do with 911's from 7 years ago? Not much, just look at the performance numbers.

The R8 V10 definitely makes sense as well but the 997 GT2 RS does also.

Originally Posted by Sticky

The car has all the latest technology just on a slightly older chassis that is modified highly anyway. A platform can evolve, the 911 has been doing it for 30+ years. It's totally comparable as it is the highest performance 997 variant. It will also outperform the next generation 911 for some time until that platform gets a GT2 or GT2 RS. It does not have the same cost constrictions the earlier cars had so the argument can be made the 997 could have been much better. Also, updated technology and design can go on a platform released earlier.

What does this really have to do with 911's from 7 years ago? Not much, just look at the performance numbers.

The R8 V10 definitely makes sense as well but the 997 GT2 RS does also.

So it has ALL the latest technology, yet the entire chassis is being replaced and is almost/is out of production...

Totally disagree. A simple look into the electronic programs on the 458 and the MC will tell you otherwise. They are much farther ahead from transmissions to features to the insane traction programs offered in two of the cars here. The next generation 991 will follow many of these offerings

Never really said they were NOT comparable, rather that putting it in the test was somewhat predictable and a waste unless we are strictly talking about numbers, something Porsche masters.

Originally Posted by onurleft

Totally disagree. A simple look into the electronic programs on the 458 and the MC will tell you otherwise. They are much farther ahead from transmissions to features to the insane traction programs offered in two of the cars here. The next generation 991 will follow many of these offerings

Porsche doesn't believe in using the PDK on the GT cars. It was not a decision due to technology but philosophy. If they wanted it there, it would be there. Same with other electronics. The 996 GT2 did not even have traction control. Ended up being called the 'Widow Maker.'

Originally Posted by Sorena

one thing to note is GT2-RS is for purist, so don't expect a feature for brushing teeth while driving and such.

Hahahah!

Getting a little off topic from my argument.

I'll leave it at my main point. The 991 will follow what these cars already offer.
It's hard to "put it there" when your company went bankrupt and into the hands of another holder during the development processes (speaking generally). We'll see if the 991 GT2-3 has PDK as well as some ridiculously high tech aero (despite having no wings) and traction programs like the two other cars. I'll gladly admit I am wrong if the future shows that. However my neighbor is a high up at Porsche Corporate, and the North American headquarters is in my town and like a car nut taking advantage of this, I knew what was coming years before it happened. You'll be impressed by the new designs coming out. Light years ahead of anything Porsche has done to the 911. Anyone an example, I did get lucky enough to use PDKs launch control on a masked C4s pre-production car before any magazine got ahold of it, just throwing it out there...
Also, that unit DOES NOT just bolt up to 620hp. But I am not arguing with the philosophical point, it's true but its kind of not really related as much to what the point i'm trying to get across is.

Agree to disagree, if you don't like what I have to say.

EVO mag issue 159 did a definative (their words, and I agree) comparison test centered on the MP4-12C, which included the Porsche (911 Turbo S) and Ferrari among some pretty distinguished iron. (Noble M600, Ford GT, Merc AMG SLS, others??? memory fails me.)

The upshot was that not one out of six testers would have taken home the McLaren given the choice of any car. Critisms ranged from non-linear brake feel to a slight hesitation at turn in, to a less than perfect 6-9 tenths driving experience. Give them a chance to tweak some of these rough edges and it might win over even the purest of the purists!

There was no discussion of price and I'm willing to bet the people buying these cars are less interested in plus or minus $50k than they are with other less tangible assets. For my money, I'd buy the Porsche as it's the most closely aligned with my value points. Might change my mind if I drove the 458 or the MP4-12C, but I doubt it.

Dan

Just read this mag today, strange.


Sorry but I don't care what they say, GT2RS for me. I mean, just look at it inside and out.... and then see what they did and why it was designed. Exhaust, tune and race gas anyone?

Can I get a manual, Ferrari? NO!? McLaren? Oh, ok, I see how it is...... put the EGO BEFORE the driving experience......

You should of scanned the GT2 shots Sticky!

Also, i'm not trying to downplay the GT2RS,

I'd be choosing that one first for sure

I want the Mac. Can't say no to the doors.

i think i would sell my soul for the 458... the 997 is really the ideal car to have and the mclaren, well; for some reason its just another run of the mill supercar.

Originally Posted by DBFIU

i think i would sell my soul for the 458...

I'd sell you into slavey for a 458. Even a hard labor camp.