• BMW sandbagging the F10 M5? 22 psi vs. 17 psi of boost for the S63tu compared to the X5 and X6 M S63 + higher compression ratio and VALVETRONIC

                    
      		   
      Published on 06-23-2011 05:37 PM
      63 Comments Comments
      BMW provided a press release today with some new details on the F10 M5. Included in these details were that the boost is higher at 22 psi in the S63tu (F10 M5 motor) vs. 17.4 psi in the standard S63 V8 twin turbo in the X5 and X6 M. The compression ratio is also at 10.0:1 the same as the N63. The X5 and X6 M as you remember from our twin turbo V8 comparison article have 9.3:1 compression ratios. So the F10 M5 is higher compression and higher boost yet only rated 5 horsepower higher with rear wheel drive?

      The compression ratio was not included in the press release but we e-mailed BMWNA and did receive confirmation the F10 M5 will have a 10.0:1 compression ratio. Will the pistons be the same as those in the N63? Certainly an interesting question.

      The other interesting development is that the F10 M5 S63tu will have VALVETRONIC which BMW claims effectively gives the motor 16 individual throttles. VALVETRONIC being a variable valve control system. The ECU controls engine power directly by varying lift of the intake valves. This system minimizes losses which of course provides a MPG as well as torque boost. The claim is also that it will sharpen throttle response.

      Is this car putting out more than just 5 horsepower more than the X5 and X6 M? We think so.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: BMW sandbagging the F10 M5? 22 psi vs. 17 psi of boost compared to the X5 and X6 M + higher compression ratio and valvetronic started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 63 Comments
      1. deemo319's Avatar
        deemo319 - 06-23-2011, 06:54 PM
        I believe that BMW is starting to use the RWHP as the stated numbers similar to the E82 1M. It will understate the horsepower like usual but more so now. I never really believed that the E70 X5 M & the E71 X6 M have 555-hp. And the S63TU is even better! As details are released about the F10 M5, it will be a monster and it should. Damn, this is going to be real fun for the next few years as BMW's engineers play with forced induction. BMW vs AMG & Audi will look like thisClick here to enlarge rof!!!!!!
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam - 06-23-2011, 07:02 PM
        Of course it's underrated!! At 10:1 and 22psi it better be putting out closer to 600hp at the crank. I bet it dyno's at 530whp or above. Do all the M5's come awd?
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU - 06-23-2011, 07:32 PM
        This is a very sophisticated engine.

        I am happy about the specifications, 10:1 compression and 22 psi sounds intoxicating. I may have to reconsider my next car, the M5 is looking good under the hood.

        Here is the problem I see though. Assume the car gets chipped, how in the hell are you gonna up the boost? To what? 30 psi? That sounds unreasonable due to the smallish stock turbos that trend on BMW engines of late. I am thinking these turbos are near maxed out stock, which will make chipping it not see gains like we are used to on the N54 engine.

        22 psi stock is like what the old SRT4s came with, and they couldnt really squeeze out more boost with a chip (maybe a little more) no matter how you cut it.

        That is my only worry, other than that; $#@! yes I love what I see.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-23-2011, 08:25 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        Of course it's underrated!! At 10:1 and 22psi it better be putting out closer to 600hp at the crank. I bet it dyno's at 530whp or above. Do all the M5's come awd?
        M5's have always been RWD but BMW announced we will likely see an AWD M5 with this generation eventually: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ll-be-produced
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-23-2011, 08:26 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
        Here is the problem I see though. Assume the car gets chipped, how in the hell are you gonna up the boost? To what? 30 psi? That sounds unreasonable due to the smallish stock turbos that trend on BMW engines of late. I am thinking these turbos are near maxed out stock, which will make chipping it not see gains like we are used to on the N54 engine.
        This is what I'm thinking, how are they going to add more boost? Did BMW just take the aftermarket out of it?

        There has to be SOME room in there, no doubt. But, with 10.0:1 and 22 psi stock... damn.

        I wonder if the N63 and S63tu pistons are the same thing. That means S63tu rods may be a popular N63 upgrade...
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam - 06-23-2011, 09:12 PM
        Nah I knew that all previous M5's were rwd I was asking about the F10 because I'd heard it was gonna be awd but wasn't sure if it was an option or if they all were gonna be like the suv's. 22psi is badass for stock but as pointed out before if your gonna have to upgrade the turbos to get more out of it might as well get the N63. I don't see alot of people going into the motor to upgrade the internals. I will no doubt but I wouldn't dream of using the S63's internals if I'm gonna go through the trouble of pulling the motor and building it out you can bet I'm using the best stuff I can find.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-23-2011, 09:14 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        Nah I knew that all previous M5's were rwd I was asking about the F10 because I'd heard it was gonna be awd but wasn't sure if it was an option or if they all were gonna be like the suv's. 22psi is badass for stock but as pointed out before if your gonna have to upgrade the turbos to get more out of it might as well get the N63. I don't see alot of people going into the motor to upgrade the internals. I will no doubt but I wouldn't dream of using the S63's internals if I'm gonna go through the trouble of pulling the motor and building it out you can bet I'm using the best stuff I can find.
        It just depends. The S63 rods may be good for 1000 whp for all we know. If all one needs is a rod upgrade from a BMW motor that is widely used in production that keeps costs low.

        Then there will be people like you who do a full rebuild and that is fine as well.

        We need to find out if the pistons are the same.
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam - 06-23-2011, 09:22 PM
        Have you seen the picture of the S63 disassembled? I wouldnt exactly describe the rods as "beefy" lol still probably good for 800hp at least. BMW jacks up the price on their stuff enough that you could probably get a custom set from Carrillo for about the same cost.
      1. Yukohama's Avatar
        Yukohama - 06-24-2011, 01:03 AM
        Well i cant wait to see a dyno of a stock one
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-24-2011, 01:06 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
        Well i cant wait to see a dyno of a stock one
        Heh you and everyone else.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena - 06-24-2011, 01:46 AM
        10.0:1 compression ratio and 22psi? it makes much more than 560hp, maybe they failed at typing and instead of 650hp they typed 560hp.

        great info Sticky.
      1. DD GT3 RD's Avatar
        DD GT3 RD - 06-24-2011, 03:31 AM
        As you pointed out, I dont understand how it only makes 5 more hp with 5lbs more boost and higher compression?!?!


        Would the placement of the Turbos also make it difficult for aftermarket companies to upgrade the turbos? looks like the turbos are almost touching each other and squeezed between the V
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam - 06-24-2011, 10:46 AM
        New exhaust manifolds would be the way to go.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-24-2011, 11:12 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD Click here to enlarge
        As you pointed out, I dont understand how it only makes 5 more hp with 5lbs more boost and higher compression?!?!


        Would the placement of the Turbos also make it difficult for aftermarket companies to upgrade the turbos? looks like the turbos are almost touching each other and squeezed between the V
        I think the aftermarket will figure out how to position them. Some have already managed to fit some big turbos on top of the S63.
      1. BK63AMG's Avatar
        BK63AMG - 06-24-2011, 11:37 AM
        An AWD M5 is just scary to think about. AWD is the primary reason why I'm considering the Panamera Turbo as my next car...but with this news I'll have to consider an M5 as well. You just can't beat the traction and control that comes with AWD.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-24-2011, 11:40 AM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BK63AMG Click here to enlarge
        An AWD M5 is just scary to think about. AWD is the primary reason why I'm considering the Panamera Turbo as my next car...but with this news I'll have to consider an M5 as well. You just can't beat the traction and control that comes with AWD.
        I'm starting to think this way as well. With the power these cars put out now RWD has become frustrating.
      1. DCAFS's Avatar
        DCAFS - 06-24-2011, 12:20 PM
        BMW states in their specifications that this engine will produce 1.5 bar ABSOLUTE pressure.

        That equates to 22 psi, but includes normal atmospheric pressure doesn't it?
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam - 06-24-2011, 12:35 PM
        Are you kidding?? I was able to fit 315's on mine no problem and probably could have gone bigger. Put some real sticky tires on there and you should be good to go unless your running the 1/4 mile and if that's the case throw some slicks on that $#@!! 33x10.5's will take everything you can throw at them. No one here is gonna take an F10 on a road course.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-24-2011, 12:37 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        Are you kidding?? I was able to fit 315's on mine no problem and probably could have gone bigger. Put some real sticky tires on there and you should be good to go unless your running the 1/4 mile and if that's the case throw some slicks on that $#@!! 33x10.5's will take everything you can throw at them. No one here is gonna take an F10 on a road course.
        I ran 305's with less torque and launching was still a $#@! unless on drag radials. So no, not kidding.

        From a roll not a problem it's from a stop where AWD sure is nice.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky - 06-24-2011, 12:39 PM
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
        BMW states in their specifications that this engine will produce 1.5 bar ABSOLUTE pressure.

        That equates to 22 psi, but includes normal atmospheric pressure doesn't it?
        I don't think so. BMW states 17.4 psi max boost pressure for the S63 so it would only make sense for the S63tu at 22 psi to be max boost pressure.
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